The Business Leadership Podcast

You are listening to the Business
Leadership Podcast with Edwin.

Paul: Hello.

Hello.

I'm Paul Newton, creative producer
of the Future Narrator miniseries,

and I'm joined by Edwin Fzo, host
of the Business Leadership Podcast.

We are recording live at Web Summit
Vancouver 2025, where we're exploring

how today's leaders shape the future, not
just through strategy, but through story.

We believe that a strong point of
view is what inspires communities,

builds movements, and cuts through
the noise in uncertain times.

So let's dive into this conversation.

Today's guest is a visionary technologist,
helping businesses unlock the power

of cloud and AI at enterprise scale.

Manav Gupta is the Vice President
and Chief Technology officer of IBM

Canada, where he leads the National
Technical Sales Organization, including

brand specialists, client engineering
teams, and solution architects.

With over 25 years of experience
in distributed systems, AV is

known for guiding IBM's top clients
through complex transformations.

From cloud hybrid Cloud adoption to
scaling AI across the enterprise.

He's also an IBM distinguished engineer,
a master inventor with 45 patents, and

the author of multiple books on cloud
computing, big data and blockchain.

Whether he's building strategies
or solving technical roadblocks, AV

brings clarity, depth, and relentless
curiosity to everything he does.

Edwin: Welcome

Manav: to the Business
Leadership Podcast, Manav.

How, how are you doing today?

I'm good.

Thank you for having me.

It's been a great, a great summit.

Uh, a lot of energy,
a lot of excitement's.

Good to see so many startups across
the, from across the country.

Just the energy, the excitement,
and meeting, you know, new

people such as yourself.

It's fantastic.

So I'm so glad that I managed to make
the time to be both at the web summit

as well as meeting you gentlemen today.

Edwin: Yeah, it's amazing.

And, and one thing we're.

We're actually keen to learn as
well before we get into Manav is,

you know, we are in Vancouver.

Personally, I'm from
Toronto, Paul's in Ottawa.

And when it comes to having this web
summit, um, you know, in Vancouver, what's

one thing that's really stood out for you?

Maybe within the region or the
folks that you're meeting or,

or just this whole experience?

Manav: I think just
flat out, it's the city.

The city is just so
beautiful, so attractive.

And maybe a little bit
of a backstory about me.

Yeah.

So I met my wife when I used to
live in England and I would travel,

uh, to Vancouver for work, but my
wife did a bait and switch as I,

as I, as I like to joke with her.

So we met in Vancouver and I fell in
love both with her as well as the city.

Um, but then when we got married,
you know, she said, okay,

we are moving to East coast.

That and East Coast is not
quite Vancouver, is it?

No way.

Edwin: I mean that's an
amazing story, Manav.

So thank you for sharing that and
we're happy that we met you here.

Not to say we're gonna fall into, into
that type of relationship, but ho hope

we have a very good conversation here.

So just jumping in into, into
your work here with IBM Canada

and specifically the problem that.

You are, you're looking to solve when it
comes to, I guess, you know, everything

from hybrid cloud transformation and
now, which is the big thing in the

summit, you know, enterprise AI adoption.

Manav: Sure.

Let me just dive in a little bit.

So if you think about
enterprises today, big or small

Edwin: mm-hmm.

Manav: If you're all trying to figure out,
and some similar things, which is how do

I get my data into a stage that it, that
I can use it to generate some insights?

Mm-hmm.

Whether it's around, mm-hmm.

Acquiring new clients,
lowering my cost or innovation.

Then the second thing that I wanna
be able to do with that data is

develop or consume an AI model or
add that data into an existing model.

Mm-hmm.

Whoever that model might be.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: To gain some insights, right?

Or to gain, gain some new business,
you know, gain some revenue.

Let's just call it that.

Quite simply, what's interesting
is if you take a step back.

There is a small number of
really large language models.

Right.

And I mean, really the whole
discussion around AI came to the

forefront only in November, 2022.

Edwin: That's

Manav: right.

I mean, prior to that, and I
have a degree in ai, nobody

really cared about ai, right?

Edwin: Yeah.

Manav: Most of the AI projects
would die on the wine because the

discussion would center around ROI.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: Safe to say, now that I think we
are past that, there is so much excitement

about, Hey, what can I do with ai?

Right.

So if you balance now and put all
of that together, if I'm a Canadian

company, again, si, regardless of the
size, we are all grappling with similar

issues, which is, how can I take a
model, first of all, which model to use?

How can I take that model, deploy it
in a location or a cloud of my choice

doesn't have to be from one vendor
or any single vendor, so to speak.

How can I then safely add my data?

That's my crown jewels.

That's unique to me.

Yeah.

That makes me who I am.

Whatever that business is.

Yeah.

And do it such that I respect the
laws of the land and such that,

especially with all of the geopolitical
situations that is going on, how do I

do it within the Canadian boundaries
without that data leaving my border?

Mm-hmm.

That's the crux of the solutions
or the problem that I've been

trying to address with my team.

Edwin: That, I mean, that's an
interesting, um, um, view and very.

Um, the perspective that you bring that
might be different from the, some of

the startup founders that we talked
to, because they are not obviously,

but they're, sometimes they're
just working with different small

solutions, given a very specific set.

And I'm curious when you think
about this, and I, I'm a, I'm an

engineer, I'm a computer engineer,
and I, I, I remember when cloud

came, I come from the telecom world.

And I've been in conversation with people.

It's like, are we, I'd love just
to get your thoughts on this.

When we come to this data privacy and
understanding what's our intellectual

property and these data insights, I
feel like we're almost going full circle

when we're gonna need CPE equipment
and we're gonna need our data here.

I'm not putting my data
in the cloud anymore.

Well, like what?

Just to get your insights on this.

It may not be ibm, but what look

Manav: hundred percent agree.

Yeah.

So, so let's just look at
globally what's going on.

Yes.

Right.

There is rise of protectionism.

Mm-hmm.

Everywhere.

Right?

Not just across the border.

Mm-hmm.

But if you look at what's happening
in parts of Europe, not all of it,

certainly Russia, China, India.

Mm-hmm.

And other parts of the
world, Hungary as an example.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: So those headwinds then force our
leadership and, and us Canadians to make

decisions on what we do with our data.

Mm-hmm.

And who do we give our data to?

That's at a broader level.

If you look at a, if I'm a startup as
an example, I totally get it right.

I want something that's easy to
use, pay as you go, that I can

consume as I need it, right?

And in that scenario, because I'm
starting with maybe not the real data,

but dummy data, test data, synthetic
data, I really wanna get started and

bootstrap really, really quickly.

Get out there right away, get
out there right away, build a

product and tie some people,

Edwin: yeah.

Manav: But soon as you go from that
to, okay, I now have some customers.

Mm-hmm.

Especially if you're a small and medium
enterprise or a large enterprise where you

now are into a regulatory industry where
you might have some sensitive PII data.

Now you gotta decide what are you
gonna do with that data, right?

So we are already beginning to
see new legislation come in.

Right.

Especially if you are into a
regulated industry like, you know.

Financial services as an
example, or a public sector

entity and insurance and telco.

Edwin: Yeah.

Manav: There are laws around, hey,
the data should be hosted in, for

example, a data center that's in
Canadian geopolitical boundary.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: So that I think is the balance
that we will have to strike as a society.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: I also think that, you know,
even though we might see changes

happening, political stances might
change over a period of time.

I think can Canadians and our leadership
will have to decide what Canada becomes.

I think we all, we had an almost
an over-reliance onto this

relationship with our neighbor.

Yes.

Maybe there is time now for us to
rebalance that trade with, I'm not

saying that no trade, right, but I
think there might be some equitable

balance that we might have to have with
perhaps other trade trading partners

such as the eu, because in some respects
we are closer to the EU in just how.

You know how our social security is
the higher degree of support and faith

we have in our government, right?

I mean, listen, we still have
seven more than greater than

70% turnout at polity, right?

Mm-hmm.

At polls as an example, which
is only in the European Union.

Mm-hmm.

So if you put all of that together,
I all, I'm, all I'm suggesting is

beyond a certain scale for startups.

Mm-hmm.

And for large enterprises, they absolutely
have to make a decision around what the

world is loosely calling AI sovereignty.

Right.

And the more we look out into the world,
Canada has to make a decision on how

do we improve our own productivity.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

How do we improve our
ranking on innovation?

And in order to do the first two,
you have to make a you, you have

to have a really strong opinion
on what happens to your data.

Edwin: That's right.

Yep.

Yeah.

That's amazing, man.

That's really cool.

So given that context, you sitting
with an IBM working with enterprises,

I'm curious, you know, you have a
vast amount of history where you came

from different, different solutions.

What is your personal
unique point of view that.

You see that will help you solve.

Sure.

A lot of these, a lot of these problems,

Manav: so listen, I'm a big
believer that AI has to be open

for societies, communities, and
individuals to excel and for us to

be controllers of our own destiny.

Mm-hmm.

Number one.

Number two, and I say this to
whoever I meet, I think all of us.

Have to go beyond just a AI consumer
to an AI value creator and whatever

that might mean in your context.

I'm not alleging that
everybody becomes technical.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: I hope that they try to become
technical or become as much technical

as they can, but just the simple thing
that when you're talking to A GPT, it's

just a next token production engine.

Or just understanding that,
okay, hey, if you just ask it a

follow up question, are you sure?

And then you see a different answer more.

That's

Edwin: right.

Manav: Right.

We'll begin to tell people
that what they're talking to

is not this sentient entity.

Edwin: That's right.

Manav: That's I think, what I try
to imbibe in, not just our clients,

but also internally into our teams,
and that's the thinking that goes

into building up products as well.

Mm-hmm.

Paul: Well, I like the discussion you
started around just Canada and increasing

the productivity here and how you see
everybody needing to be, become more,

more technical or more involved with ai.

Yeah.

Um, I mean, having, um, having come from,
well England over to here and prior to

England clearly, uh, from somewhere else
and having perspectives from, uh, from

life in, uh, in different countries,
how, how do you think that that's shaped?

How you see things now?

Manav: I think it, it's, it has allowed
me to look at, um, I'll say almost

a critical lens at how Canada as a
society, um, has been, um, pursuing

our, our, our, our ambitions of,
of the wealth of both resources,

natural and people that we have.

And maybe one can argue that we aren't
quite leveraging the plethora of

resources that are available to us.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: So, I lived in, I
mean, I was born in India.

I studied in India, I studied in England.

I spent some time in the US and I've
been in Canada now for over a decade.

I think what I, one of the
fundamental things that I love,

that I learned is, first of all,
Canadians love experimentation.

We love our POCs, no matter the
size or scale of the organization.

But we are too reticent or risk averse.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: What I see in our counterparts
across the border is, yeah,

they'll do the experimentation.

Mm-hmm.

But they're not afraid to take a bet.

To take a chance.

Sure.

It might result into some of the more
extreme behaviors that we see, but it also

gives them the economic advantage that.

Was attracting the best
talent around the world.

Edwin: Yeah,

Manav: I think that little bit of
that conservative m that exists, or

the risk averseness that we have,
that has to be addressed for sure.

I think the second thing that I see is,
and I've talked to many, uh, researchers

in academia across many universities.

I'm constantly amazed by the
talent that we have, but we

just don't challenge ourselves.

I think we have to be, as
a society, stop accepting.

I don't want to call it
mediocrity, but average.

Edwin: Yeah,

Manav: average is not good enough,
especially in this age of lms, right?

I could hire a average, you know, uh,
person historically, but if I can get a

generator to do that task for me, the,
the individual has to bring something

more beyond what I can just get a.

Silly machine to do.

Right.

So having that point of view and being
unafraid and experiment and being able

to experiment and take a bet, those
are critical things that I think that

as a country, we need to really ask
ourselves, are we ready to do that?

It's only then are we going
to be able to ready for, to be

ready for the future, you know?

Especially with everything
that's going on globally.

Yeah.

Paul: And so taking chances and
striving to be exceptional, is that,

um, where did that come from in you?

Manav: I think some of
this is immigrant ethic.

Yeah.

Right, right.

For sure.

Right.

To be, to be quite kind.

I mean, it's the same dose that
I give to my kids as well, so I

have three little boys and around
dinner table and on a daily basis.

This is our constant debate.

Right.

You must experiment.

You have to be, rather than a know it all.

Be a learn it all.

Right?

You have to be intellectually curious.

You have to have a growth mindset.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: Like these are all
basic things that we need.

Yeah.

And again, as I said, I'm a, like,
I do a lot of hiring as well.

I'm constantly amazed by the how switched
on and how, uh, aware our youngsters are.

But I think it's up, falls up to us as
leaders to then guide them to motivate

them that it's okay to fail fast, right?

Fail safely, but move
on so that you can grow.

And take bigger risks.

Mm-hmm.

And that's what we try to do in our
organization as well, quite candidly.

Right.

I mean, we had to do a bit of a
pivoting ourselves, you know, like

just as an example, the cycle time
of our products from inception to

making it to, to general availability.

We brought it down quite substantially
to like from over a year to, you know,

about, just about about a quarter.

Wow.

We're not quite there yet.

Like I want, I want we wanted
to be even faster as an example.

Yeah.

That's pretty quick though, right?

But.

That's, that's how you
do these things, right?

You, you have to let a
thousand flowers bloom.

That's how innovation grows.

So

Paul: what, uh, what's the dinner
table conversation that, uh,

parents should be having now?

Manav: I think, I think number
one conversation in today's world

has to be around, um, ai, the use
of ai, the ethical use of ai, um,

where the ai, how to detect ai.

Hmm.

Some of the pitfalls and dangers of ai.

So as long as you and I, uh, all of us
as parents, and anybody that's listening,

watching to this, we have to consciously
put this tech in our kids' hands, right?

We cannot be Luddites to say,
block this, or Don't do this.

Yeah.

In some respects you can argue that a
hundred years ago people were having

the same conversation about Abacus.

Edwin: That's right.

Manav: Or ruler.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or calculator.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: The cats are the bag.

It's now how do you use this?

How do you put guardrails around it?

Right.

How do you make, how do you add on
top of what this thing cannot do?

Paul: Yeah.

And I mean, the leadites that
were burning, the, the looms and

things to prevent, uh, job losses.

Exactly.

You know?

Uh, now, um.

Well, we can't, uh, we
can't burn anything.

So

Manav: cat's outta the bag, like you,
there's, there's nothing you can do.

I mean, I, I think the other, the other
thing to do is like, I, I talk to a

lot of, um, people in the industry
and some of the parents as well, and

the constant thing I keep telling them
is that, okay, so are you telling me

you're not gonna be using a cell phone?

Are you not gonna be using,
you know, video transmission?

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: Like we don't realize how much
of the tech we are consuming, right?

It's been part of the, I'll say, societal
fabric, so we don't appreciate it.

Sometimes this is a new thing and
then of course every, everybody is

paranoid what it's gonna do and the
job potential, job losses and so on.

I think we all have to adapt to
have this a part of our lives.

And then for Canadians at large,
my sincerely, my message is.

How do we make this Canada
led, Canada driven, right?

So that our, we benefit our society, our
economy benefits versus somebody else's.

Edwin: Man, now that's amazing.

I love, I love how, you know, in terms
of, I, I have two young children,

so it's, it's really, you know,
refreshing in the sense is, you know,

have those hard conversations and be
open to it and, and don't be afraid.

Um, I'm curious when it comes to the
business leadership, uh, it's just the

last question before, before, before
we close off, is, uh, I'm curious how.

You are pivoting in the way you are
leading your teams and your organizations

when it comes with the rise of ai.

Of course, you're thinking about
implementation and adoption for your

clients, but how have you shifted
the way you lead your teams now?

Manav: Oh, a hundred percent.

So I mean, when, as just as an example,
when GPT became this huge thing in

November of 2022, we realized very,
very early on that as an organization,

and IBM is a global company with
a significant Canadian presence.

But we have this problem that we had
to make all of our employees be aware.

Mm-hmm.

So we had to train everybody.

So we decided to gamify it.

Edwin: So we

Manav: created a week long challenge.

We've done it twice now.

We are doing it on an annual basis.

So we called it our Watson X, which
is the brand name, our AI challenge.

Really.

And we paired everybody regardless of
their skill level into a virtual team.

And then we allowed those teams
to ideate over a period of

a week and create something.

So everybody had to be hands on.

It doesn't.

It's like a hackathon.

It's a hackathon.

Love.

Love that.

It's a virtual hackathon.

Yeah.

But it was more around
experiment and play and imagine.

Mm.

Right.

Especially with how this tech
is, we are only limited by

the extent of our imagination.

Mm-hmm.

And what it allowed us to do is,
number one, we used our own technology.

So we learned how to scale that tech.

So that's one benefit that we got out
of that right client, zero ourselves.

But more importantly, we're
able to educate everybody.

Now, I mean, one week of
education is obviously not

enough, but it certainly allowed

Edwin: awareness.

Manav: Awareness.

It empowered people.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Manav: They started
being less afraid of it.

Edwin: Yeah.

Manav: And then once awareness is
a part of it, then they began to

understand how to spot it, how to,
how to imagine different use cases.

It gave us tons of use
cases to work on as well.

Ideas.

That's how we pivot and,
and ideas a hundred percent.

Right.

How to take out costs.

Okay.

What are the things that we are doing
today that perhaps we can do without?

You are listening to the Business
Leadership Podcast with Edwin.