The Business Leadership Podcast

Salli: You're listening to the business
leadership podcast with Edwin Frondoso.

Jason Smith: I think we'll see this, uh,
you know, this, this future where AI is

going to be a real propellant for getting
what we need and the hardest part is going

to be articulating truly what we need.

Edwin: Good morning.

Good afternoon.

And good evening biz leader.

Welcome to another episode of
the business leadership podcast.

I'm your host, Edwin Frondozo.

And today.

We are featuring another special episode
from our future narrative mini series.

This was recorded.

Live at the collision
conference in Toronto, Canada.

In this series, we explore the
future of leadership, innovation, and

storytelling with visionary leaders
who are not just designing products.

But are also creating entire
new worlds and markets.

Joining me today is Dr.

Paul Newton.

And together we will be
speaking with Jason Smith.

He's the CEO and co-founder of clue.

A company that provides business.

With competitive intelligence and buyer
insights that help them win deals.

They may have not otherwise lost.

With a background as president.

vision critical.

VP of electronics art and
co-founder of several startups.

He brings a wealth of
experience to the table.

In our conversation, Jason,
we'll discuss how clues supports

businesses by identifying and
closing the competitive revenue gap.

We'll explore the importance
of getting accurate information

about competitors and customers.

And how clues service includes
post-deal analysis to provide

a high signal feedback.

So without further ado, here we go.

We're now speaking with
Jason Smith, CEO of clue.

Jason, how you doing today?

Jason Smith: Yeah, excited to be here.

Thanks for having me.

Edwin: Thanks for joining us.

I know we missed each other.

At Collision, but we're
happy to virtually connect.

So I'm just actually going
to just jump right in.

Jason if you could just share the problem
that Clue is solving today for businesses.

Jason Smith: Yeah, I think the simplest
way to describe it is we try and get all

the insights we can about your competitors
and your buyers to help companies

win the deals they should have won.

Maybe the high level.

It's a B2B SaaS, competitive
intelligence, win loss.

But the crisp way to think of it
is like, there's a bunch of cool

insights that your competitors
have that we can get from buyers.

And if we extract them and deliver them
to the front lines of your company, we're

going to help sellers win the deals.

They should have won.

Edwin: that's a huge gap.

if you're thinking about those leading
revenues or where their KPIs are around.

For someone who's not using Clue,
Tell me more like what their problem

is today and what they're hearing.

And they're like, you know what,
we need to really look at what

Jason is talking about right now.

Jason Smith: I have deep empathy
for those not using Clue.

It's like having a house that doesn't have
a lock or an alarm, , I think there is

a moment of understanding for every CRO
that looks at their pipeline and realizes

it breaks down into kind of three levels.

You're going to win a certain
percentage, let's say you win

20 percent of that pipeline.

You're going to lose the other 80%,
but that, maybe a split into 50 percent

of it is no decision, and you're
not sure if they went with somebody

else or if they just truly couldn't
get the budget or what have you.

For sure, there's like a chunk, let's
call it 30 percent of that pipeline.

That is very specific to you
or head to head with either

one or multiple competitors.

You had a buyer that had budget.

They talk to you, they've reviewed
you, and they just pick someone else.

And that is what we call, at Clue, we
call it the competitive revenue gap.

And it's this concept of there are
deals that you are in, where it's,

you can't blame it on the economy,
it's literally, you didn't have

either the right solution, or you
got Outmaneuvered by your competitor.

And I think so when I think of that, just
imagine you have 100 million pipeline.

That's a 30 million problem.

Call it 50 percent of those deals.

You're never going to win because
they've already got prior relationships.

They've your product truly wasn't a fit.

Those kind of things.

But the other 50 percent there's probably
a chance that you could have won that.

And I view it as there's a whole bunch
of little things along the way in that

deal cycle that is increasing the trust,
increasing the confidence that you are

the right solution for what they need.

Part of that is, how a seller
would maneuver and share

their, they're they're value.

And the other part of it is the
minute they hang up the call with

you, they go talk to someone else.

And so are they starting
to like that other person?

And I always use the dating analogy.

It's you can go on a date with someone.

And if you're the intellect and the
next dates with the jock, the following

date, do you want to just do it?

Maybe talk about how important
intelligence is over, sports.

I don't know.

How are you going to react to that?

If you know that they're, dating
other people, I think that's how I

think of the competitive revenue gap.

We got to help companies understand
how to win against the other

folks that they're dating.

Edwin: This is a, it almost
sounds like a secret weapon.

Cause I imagine those, those that you
have a lot of empathy for who don't

use clue And, I have experience being
on the sales side and, having those

conversations with your, with the
sales lead is so what happened here?

And basically I'm just saying, I'm
not sure it looked, it felt good and

they just went MIA and that, those are
the ones we're talking about, right?

Like those deals that kind of just went
MIA, they ghosted me, they're not calling

me back and we, and I don't know why.

Jason Smith: It's funny.

So we, we try and look at hard
numbers like that 50 percent of

no decision where they've ghosted
you and you don't know in the CRM.

It's I don't know.

I don't know if they went with
somebody else or anything.

They don't, they're not telling me
likely they did go with someone else

and they're just not telling you.

That 50 percent chunk that I'm just
calling no decision, I think there's a

whole bunch of competitive stuff in there.

Literally, I'm only talking about,
let's do the ones that you know

you're in a competitive situation in,

that they're mentioning things
about a competitor solution.

They might use certain words, like
they say tiles instead of boards.

And those give you hints that they're
likely talking to a certain competitor.

And if you know that, Then you're going
to elegantly strengthen your position on

certain things and elegantly deposition.

You're never going to bash them, but
if you know who you're up against,

you're going to elegantly maneuver.

So I think it less about the
no decision and more about like

the concrete ones where you're
pretty sure competitors in there.

And how do you maneuver to your
best advantage to win those deals?

Edwin: Yeah, no, I get it now.

And I've been in those situations
where I'd speak to, the prospect

and they're like you know what?

I just spoke to so and your competitor,
and this is what the sometimes you have

that relationship where they tell you
exactly what's happening and maybe they're

pitting you against each other, right?

Jason Smith: that's the founding story.

why I got into Clue.

I was present in this company
that it was about 500 people.

We had about a hundred salespeople.

I remember distinctly being on a
call with one of my reps and a sales

engineer, and we're talking to this
prospect and we at the time, the

no clue existed, we didn't really
have a lot of competitive knowledge.

And but we have a high level,
we do relatively well here.

They do relatively well there.

the prospect was like wait a minute.

You like, no, I actually
think they do that.

We got a demo yesterday and
suddenly the rep is yeah.

at that point, they either lie
and say something that is no, they

suck at that, Or they look like
they don't have the knowledge.

in either scenario, it's a
deprecation of trust in the deal.

Certainly lying is worse.

But it's just little inches
that you take off in the trust

sequencing that ultimately tips
somebody into winning, the business.

So I left and had a
product management team.

Build a wiki that was
awesome for two weeks.

then it was out of date and
you got in that bad cycle.

that was the core of Clue is watching.

Prospects who are more educated
about the market and the competitors

than our own company was.

And I just felt wrong.

Edwin: that's really interesting.

And it's really the, That building
that, awareness of who's out there.

Because I know traditionally for
anyone who's coming through sales,

it's always product knowledge.

You've got to learn everything
that you're good at and what you

do, all the features and benefits.

And then of course you get all
this information and you forget

about all, even just, let's say
the top two, three competitors.

Like it's even just hard
to pit that against.

And I'm assuming Jason, that's
where you're talking about the wiki.

You probably just had a wiki against,
let's say the two or three competitors.

And this is how we.

Go up against it, but I'm
assuming Clue is way past this

now but that's where it started.

Jason Smith: Yeah, look, actually, at the
end of the day, we're maybe you couldn't

do everything that we're doing now.

Manually, it might be too hard to monitor
every single page of your competitors

website and look at the history of it.

But there is At some extent, like
you could do it if you had an

army and and we're on top of it.

You just think of your own company.

Like how many clients are
you winning and losing?

What new offerings are
you putting out there?

Are there tweaks on your
discounting and pricing?

Are you winning any awards?

Are you having any issues
that are public in the market?

Is your advertising good or bad?

What case studies have you just launched?

There's features that you've
launched from a product standpoint.

There is so much stuff in your own company
that you're doing and then just step back.

Do you think your
competitors are doing that?

Of course they are.

And so like they're doing
the exact same thing.

And so you need to be up to date on
both and then just see where that

sequencing is of saying okay, they're
probably a little stronger here.

That's a landmine, man.

If that's something our
prospect really wants.

I sure hope they don't because if I
hit that's the grenade that's going to

lose the deal for me.

And so you need to understand where those
are and an idea in a lot of business.

It's one a lot of competitors are, there's
a lot of similarities between competitors.

So

it's really nuanced on, which one might
be slightly better than the other.

And this is where, the second.

Part of our businesses buyer insights.

We do literally win loss interviews.

So at the end of a deal, if you lost
a deal, we're the third party that

will go back and talk to the buyer
and say, like why did you go with

them instead of this other company?

And we get cold, hard, super high
signal truth from that buyer.

Like we've heard the difference of
what's in the CRM from the rep of ah,

it was a pricing thing compared to, the
buyer saying, honestly, they just kept

pitching this mobile app and I didn't
care at all about mobile and they, it

was a new shiny thing and they wouldn't
stop talking about the mobile app.

And that doesn't appear in the reason
for loss in the CRM that the rep

fills out when you actually speak to
the buyer in a 3rd party way, they

feel open about it It's felt like a
bro culture in that company, and I

didn't feel comfortable working with
the buyers don't tell reps that.

And it doesn't show up in the CRM.

what we found was like, 63 percent of the
data that's in the serum reasons for loss.

is wrong, like flagrantly wrong compared
to what we learned from interviews.

think of that, if 63 percent of your
thousand deals are giving you reasons

that are wrong, you might literally
change your pricing based on that data.

You might change product development
and build features based on that data.

So if you're and you might
tweak your entire go to market

strategy based on that data.

I just we did that.

And and the aha of getting the real
truth when you screw up enough,

like basing it on that data.

You're like, okay, this
is we need to know.

And so you need this buyer insight.

It gives you the knowledge of
how your prospects are actually

absorbing information about
you and your competitors.

Edwin: That's really amazing and I
just feel like that second part, that

offering and getting that clarity in
the CRM is a very big advantage and

insightful for those who are running
running those sales organizations.

Because as you said before that, you
really have to trust whatever the rep and

the leaders are saying in terms of why
they're losing and it's almost all wrong.

Jason Smith: Yeah there are, there
are great reps out there that put in

great information and actually take
the time to follow up on a call.

Just the unfortunate reality
is that's not the majority.

You lose a deal, you
move on to the next one.

It's just the nature of sales.

And people are a little more open when
they're dealing with a third party

versus not literally we have the reps
introduce us to do the interview.

So it's not like the rep shouldn't
be involved at some level, but

it's people are just more open.

It's so high signal.

The first time I saw a
win loss report on clue.

Like it's painful and you're
literally you don't want to

believe some of the stuff, right?

Oh, the competitor has
better AI than you do.

I know that's not true.

I know it's not.

So why did they believe that or
your pricing model is opaque?

Somehow?

That's not the way that
we are go to market.

So is there something wrong
with how the rep delivered it?

Is it how they interpret it?

And you're listening to this guy,
I'm not even sure I believe it.

And then you play the clip, the recording
from that prospect going, I will never

use Clue again because of this and this.

And you're like, wow, it hits
you like a ton of bricks.

And you just, you're forced to make
the changes that you need to make and

you go to market as a result of it.

Edwin: That's really cool.

And then you just brought
up artificial intelligence.

So I'm curious and obviously sales
is built around relationships,

but I'm really from your point
of view, Jason how do you see AI?

In the sales process, or if
it's going to revolutionize how

things are done in B2B space.

Jason Smith: The question of the
moment I'm in a business where I'm

trying to support sellers with the
right knowledge so they can do their

best in any kind of business dealing.

the next progression is it gets easier to
feed reps more tailored, insightful data.

instead of here's what we
know about the competitor.

It's here's what we know
about the competitor for your

particular deal and the prospect.

in this particular moment
and sequence in the deal.

These are some things you might want to
think about doing or saying it's going

to become much more hyper personalized,
not at the company level, not even at

the, it's going to be down to the deal
level and then the motion and timing.

So that feels obvious uncovering and
getting answers to your questions.

We'd all rather tap the smartest
person in the company to say, what

would I say when they ask this?

The AI is very good at generating
that content and that answer for you.

Part of the problem is it generates
a slightly different answer every

time somebody asks it, and that's
not the ideal scenario in a lot of

enterprises, they want it to be like,
no, this is how I want you to say it.

But, the idea of
generative content is real.

I think where it gets really
interesting is the extrapolation

of the entire sales process.

So when you think about.

Buying a PLG piece of software.

you can use the software, you pay for it.

You don't even talk to a rep, right?

A bigger piece of
software you currently do.

But is there a point where you're just
having your AI agent and where you've

been very clear about the things that
you're looking for or what stage are

you just an investigation that talks to
another sales AI agent, and actually they

do a bit of the briefing negotiation.

at what point do we get more and
more comfortable actually doing

a non human interaction purchase?

It used to be like 10 bucks.

Then it was a hundred bucks.

Then a thousand bucks.

It's kind of 10, 000 bucks now.

Is it a hundred thousand dollars
when you're okay with your AI agent

talking to another AI sales agent to
do the negotiation of, is this the

right fit for my company or my needs?

I think we're going to get to a
point where AI is sophisticated

in sharing your position doing
exactly what a salesperson does.

I think for many years, though,
we're going to see that just

assisting salespeople, helping them
before, during and after the deal,

or the moment of engagement with a
prospect, just going to assist them

and make them much more efficient.

I personally don't believe
that we're ever going See human

sellers, human sales disappear.

I think it'll be a human still
like dealing with humans.

It's the same kind of post COVID world
where we enjoy being around people again,

maybe not all the time, but a little bit.

And so I think there's this human
interaction that's core to us that

we're going to still want, but I think
a lot of the muck is going to get taken

care of ultimately by, AI talking to
AI and and getting to the point where,

okay, I've narrowed the things down.

And now I just need these specifics
and tell me about the company and the

people that I'm going to be buying from.

can I trust that?

In a nutshell, this progression from
high level information to very tailored

deal level information from assisting,
the salesperson to be more efficient at

that deal level to maybe handling more
of the Upfront overviews pitching semi

deal negotiation with another AI agent,
and then, moving the human further down

the line to close the piece of business.

So I hope that doesn't
sound existential and scary.

I just think it's a natural
evolution of how AI gets smarter.

Edwin: what the vision that was coming
through my mind as you were describing

it, Jason, I'm like it's, when it comes
to finding the right solution, I would

be in my world presented with three.

My AI said, Hey, here are
three perfect reasons.

Maybe at this point you could
engage with the company.

And say, and like you said,
what's the culture fit?

How does it really look like?

And what would a relationship look like?

Cause maybe the AI may not know
what the relationship will look

like after six months, right?

Like you have to talk with the
people and get a good feel about

these people at the cause there's
still people behind the business.

I believe still Unless we start
hiring CEO AIs, but that might be a.

Jason Smith: Let me know
when that happens, please.

Yeah.

I, yeah, I, it just, I think it just
gets faster, better and humans switch

to the higher and higher value pieces.

And again, I believe there'll always
be a human equation where you do

want to, you do want to trust the
people that you're working with, the

business that you're working with.

Edwin: Yeah.

So with that in mind coming from helping
sales organizations close more deals and

what we're facing with the rise of this
technology, Jason, what are your biggest

challenges you face today within the
business and within and growing it now?

Jason Smith: So this is my fifth company.

I've been, five times
startup entrepreneur.

That's all I do.

There is this moment of.

2023 that when we sell largely our
market is B2B tech companies, for the

most part, we're into manufacturing
and a couple of thin slices into

other verticals, but largely B2B tech.

That market shut off
budget very abruptly in 23.

And so there is the first comment that
hit most of us in B2B SaaS was the budget.

Challenge everybody pulled back.

Tech is the first to spend
and the first to pull back.

And so it's a real moment
of turning off spigots.

And, we all thought we were a must
have and turns out a lot of us are

nice to have including some very
multi billion dollar companies.

And I think that was the first aha that we
are all readjusting to sharpening the ROI.

Saying look, this is how it
can really deliver value.

The easy selling was done.

It was real business
casing and total value.

But the other comment
that hit in 23 was AI.

Like it truly was.

What can this do?

Wow, it can do that.

Maybe it'll do this next.

Oh, it is starting to do that.

And there was this like progression
of surprising of how good it

was and how much better it was
getting at such a significant pace.

And so what that meant to
me in the enterprise is.

A lot of proper, a lot of crop up
of AI councils of maybe we shouldn't

buy a either long term software
or any software in this domain or

any domain for a particular grant.

Let's just see where
this AI stuff could go.

Maybe it's going to do some of it.

And so they started, I think
experimenting with how much if

we licensed an internal version.

Of opening, I say, or, some kind
of LLM internally, and they hook

up their internal data stores.

Is there something that we could
leverage there and get some value

without buying third party software?

And so I think there was a lot of hope
thrashing reality, crushed dreams, maybe

that just slowed the buying process down.

And is existential.

There's not a company I know that hasn't
completely rewritten their roadmap

in 23, from a gen AI kind of first
perspective that they're building it up.

So those are two comments that in
my five startup career, I've never

seen hit at once where your entire
tech stack is quicksand and you are

rebuilding on this rapidly shifting
base and then budget challenges.

So I would say there's no question that.

Is the most challenging thing
that we're coming out of.

Thankfully, 24 has been a little better.

There's some green shoots.

That's the micro that's like the here
and now, the macro business pieces,

you're always looking for the right type
of talent at the right type of time.

And what I think is interesting in my
particular case, we were just in hyper

growth mode growing, doubling every
year, got to 200 people, hit 23, and

all of a sudden it was like a challenge.

And as you're growing that
quickly, you're hiring.

ahead of it.

And so you move from this like group
of jazz musicians that don't need a lot

of process can pick up a tune and kind
of run together to orchestra with sheet

music and like people that fit roles.

And as a result of that, you've got this
like blended culture and that works fine

if you continue on this growth path.

And like we thought, okay we'll get
up to 500 people pretty quickly.

So you're building all these processes
and bringing people with more experience.

And then suddenly it's
Whoa, hold on a minute.

AI, budget cuts.

we're not going to double this year.

What's that mean now?

And so you've got this
mix of orchestra players.

And jazz musicians.

And usually that makes for shitty music.

And so you've got to have
this, like, where are you at?

What stage and figuring out how much
to layer in process, how much to layer

in those super experienced people.

So I think talent and understanding
the mix of talent at different stages

of processes is really important.

It's always a macro issue
for everybody, regardless of

budget cycles and tech changes

Edwin: I really love your analogy with
the jazz and the orchestra, I guess what

comes to mind for me, Jason is, as your
fifth time founder now how has this when

it comes to budget cuts and AI, challenge
you to change your leadership style?

Jason Smith: I think on the budget
cuts, it became a go to market

question and that's where the
hardening of the business case and

the ROI story and this competitive
revenue gap really became real.

It's look, this is a, you got a
hundred million dollar pipeline.

This is a 30 million problem that
we're going to try and solve.

Is it worth the 50 K bet?

That's the nut of how
you would positioning.

And then there's a whole bunch
of data that you bring into that.

That's the ROI for the budget piece.

The AI piece was a little bit
like, okay, chat GPT comes

onto the scene in November 20.

And by the way, we've been deep in
ML for years and years, like first

gen kind of model transformers.

We've been playing with it all.

Ends up narrowing down a big corpus of
millions of data points down to a couple

of hundred search sort filter from there.

It wasn't generative.

And I think when LLMs came
along and made it generative,

it was like an awakening moment.

And there is a, like almost some
skepticism from like people that

have been doing ML for a long time.

I literally, we had to run
a hackathon to get our very

experienced PhD ML engineers to go.

Holy, this is legit.

And it, pretty quickly it happened,
but it took a quarter and that

quarter, we're now, what do you change?

And you had a roadmap all defined for
the year and now you're ripping it up and

going, okay, we have a new top priority.

That's a whole communication layer
change down through the company.

It's a whole reorg kind of mind.

And so you have to, that's where the
jazz musician piece would come in.

It's Hey, orchestras players, look,
growth is going to be trickier.

We're going back to jazz musician mode.

We're a series B company.

And so I think, as a CEO, it became.

How quickly do you get conviction
that this is the right way, and

then how quickly can you communicate
and turn the entire organization

to adapt to these two realities?

I think the stupidest thing is just not
accepting the reality, and you're never

going to have 100 percent conviction.

So it's like when you're over
50, and it's you've gone a couple

nights, or maybe weeks with that
level of over 50 percent conviction.

And You lean in and and
you go in the new piece.

So that's what I would say.

It was like like a dawning of a
recognition, a conviction of, and then

hard communication to reorient the
company to where we think we needed to go.

Edwin: That's great.

Thank you for sharing that Jason.

As we're working with the, this future
narrative concept, I'm curious if

you could share the vision of the
future that you're building today.

Jason Smith: I think today we
serve a very kind of narrow niche.

It's largely B2B tech companies that are
typically larger, at least a couple of

hundred employees plus and it's sellers.

When the deals they should have won.

But the neat thing is when I back up
and I look at the foundational truth

is for me, every company in the world
has three things in common, right?

They've got, you've got employees,
you've got customers and you've

got competitors and those
competitors are never going away.

They're always going to change.

There'll be new ones that crop
up, direct, indirect, et cetera.

And they're always
going to be doing stuff.

The belief is ultimately that every
company needs this system of record

for understanding where they sit
relative to those competitors and

how to improve their position.

Relative to those competitors.

So it's not just
salespeople that need that.

If you're a marketer, you need that.

If you are a strategy person
thinking about where the next blue

and white space is, you need that.

If you're a product manager, you're
trying to think about what features

do you waste, not waste money on
versus the ones that are going to be

differentiated and make the difference.

You need that.

If you like literally had
Nike using us for talent

acquisition, how do you compare?

This culture to that culture.

So these are use cases we hadn't thought
about, but ultimately my belief, my vision

is every department of every business
needs to understand in a very personalized

for their business case way, how they
stack up against that competition.

I understand their buyers to feed
in to how they might move that

position to a more favorable position
relative to those competitors.

And that's what we're building is
the system of record for compete

for every company in the world.

Edwin: ,that's great.

It's really clear to me
in terms of that vision.

And I could see how it's really valuable.

And when your vision is, here is real
and everyone understands how Clue fits

into their role, their business, how are
how does the world, What is the impact

and how has the world changed by then?

Jason Smith: I think let's just
see if machines have taken over

the world, if AGI is real or not.

Like I think, there's a lot of smart
people predicting that, we'll see

AGI within the next five years.

And there's a lot of smart people that
think it's like still a long way away.

I think when we have.

AI doing a lot of work for
us, the whole thing changes.

Will you actually even
use a piece of software?

Or will you just tell it to create the
thing you need in that particular moment?

Is it, the Star Trek create
this thing for me and make it

real so I can drink that shake?

Or do you need to buy all the
ingredients all the time and do it?

There's AI.

Potential where it might create what
you need in the moment, not just the

answer, but create the output you need.

And if you start to go down that
path, it's a big existential

question for all of software.

Is there, are you just asking
a system to do what you need?

And really, then the hardest part
is articulating our needs properly.

Cause like we do now, if you go
to, if you go to chat to BD and you

ask it to create an image for your
podcast, you ask and refine that

image at least 10 times, because you
didn't ask it right in the beginning.

And frankly, we're pretty bad at humans
about really articulating what we need.

You go buy a house and you're like,
it's got to have three bedrooms,

got to have three bedrooms.

And then you see the kitchen.

You're like, Oh my God,
that kitchen's amazing.

I don't care.

It's only one bedroom.

Let's do it.

Like humans are just.

Like that.

So I think we'll see this this
future where AI is going to be a

real propellant for getting what we
need and the hardest part is going to

be articulating truly what we need.

Edwin: Yeah, I know we're
running out time here, Jason.

I do appreciate you.

But before we let you go,
are there any final thoughts,

recommendations, or any advice that
you wanna share to the business

leader who may be listening today?

Jason Smith: Yeah.

I think the biggest thing for me is truly
understanding who your ideal customer

profile really is, that target market.

And we serve a B2B community.

And so the world that we live in
is there's a particular person with

a particular title that reports
to other people that has political

issues inside their company.

They need to wrestle with, you need
to understand everything about that,

what their title is, all the different
variants of that title, how it, the

reporting lines look like, how they go
about getting budget, political challenges

they might have internally, where those
other companies, where the company

is in terms of their own challenges
economically, and then the individual.

They love soccer.

They started in political science,
ended up doing research and moving

their way through an organization
that way, and they have aspirations

of actually being in a band.

You need to know everything
about, Your ideal customer

profile in as depth as possible.

Because relating to those people,
knowing where they frequent, where they

show up, what their challenges are.

That's what truly helps
drive your business.

Edwin: That's amazing, Jason.

It's been an absolute pleasure.

Thank you for joining us on the
business leadership podcast.

That's it.

Biz leaders.

Thank you for joining me on
this special episode of the

business leadership podcast.

Part of our future narrator mini series
of recorded at the collision conference.

It was an insightful
conversation with Jason Smith.

Exploring how clue is helping businesses
gain competitive intelligence.

And understanding the buyer's insights.

For links to all the
resources we discussed.

To connect with Jason and to
learn more about the future

narrative project, please.

Check the show notes in the app.

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And if you're interested in reading
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leaders that we profiled that collision.

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