The Business Leadership Podcast

Salli: You're listening to the business
leadership podcast with Edwin Frondoso.

Jarrette: Your equity is for founders.

Your equity is the most finite
and valuable resource that you

have at your disposal alongside.

The ideas that you have for your business.

And so when it comes to managing your cap
table or thinking about what the future

holds, the sooner you have your cap
table built out on a platform like Mantle

equity, the sooner you can start focusing
on the other elements of your business

and how you're going to impact them.

For a limited time, we
offer the first year free.

It's a hundred dollars a month after
that with unlimited stakeholders, if

you're interested in learning more,
you can reach out to us at with Mantle.

com.

Edwin: Good morning.

Good afternoon.

And good evening biz leader.

Welcome to another episode of
the business leadership podcast.

I'm your host.

Edwin Frondozo And today we are
featuring a special episode from

our future narrator mini series.

Recorded live at the collision
conference in Toronto, Canada.

In this series, we explore the
future of leadership, innovation, and

storytelling with visionary leaders
who are not just designing products.

But creating entire
new worlds and markets.

Joining me is Dr.

Paul Newton and together we'll be
speaking with Jarrett Quan-Hin.

the co-founder and head
of product at mantel.

In our conversation, Jarrett
will discuss how Mantle seeks to

revolutionize how founders and
companies manage their equity.

We'll delve into the inherent
complexities of cap tables, the

common errors and discrepancies that
arise and how Mantle provides a more

integrated forward-looking solution.

So without further ado, here we go.

Now speaking with Jarrett Quan
Hin, co founder of Mantle.

Jarrett, how you doing today?

Jarrette: Doing great, Edwin.

Thanks for having me

Edwin: No, thank you for joining us today.

Really excited I guess, jumping
right in, Jarrett, I'd love it if you

could share what problem is Mantle
solving when it comes to founders

who are running their companies?

Jarrette: We're building Mantle Equity,
and what we want to do is change

the way that founders and companies
think about how they understand,

manage, and plan around one of their
most precious resources, a finite

resource, which is their equity.

that starts and ends with a cap table.

what we've seen is a growing disconnect
on how companies think about and

reason with their cap tables that stems
from a number of different factors.

Essentially, all of the captive or the
entire cap table is built off of this

compilation of legal documents, corporate
filings, board consents, and there's a

lot of complexity in those documents that
gets extracted and put onto a cap table.

But all of these platforms that are
built to capture the information don't

place enough focus, on maintaining
a tight link between those documents

and the information that they've
pulled out and set onto the platform.

And then the other piece is
that they tend to look more as a

backwards looking repository of that
information to say what's happened.

And so what we're seeing is when founders,
their CFOs, their lawyers are looking to

start planning around the future of the
company, whether it's a hiring round.

A price round financing, they're
extracting or exporting the information

into a spreadsheet, starting to play
around with it, the potential for that

reality to start spidering off and for
errors to get introduced ends up making

its way into the point where either
at the point where they're planning

what moves they want to make, or when
they've made those changes and are

pulling them back into the platform,
they realize that what they thought they

were going to be doing doesn't match up
with what the reality ended up being.

And so we're seeking to
change that for founders

Edwin: that's very interesting and
I'm a founder as well, partner in

different things and I imagine, and
from your experience, Jared a lot

of this also starts with the lack
of knowledge of what a cap table is

as first time entrepreneurs because
we come in as idea, problem solvers,

we don't even know much about this.

Jarrette: Yeah, 100%.

Edwin: What do you see when
it comes to your platform?

Is it educating from the start
or are you typically working when

the cap tables already formed or
some sort of cap tables formed?

Jarrette: Yeah, it's been a large mix.

We're dealing with new growth companies
that are part of partnerships that we

have with accelerators or incubators
where it's exactly that they're people

that have an idea, they want to make
it a reality and the aspect of the

cap table is just a secondary thought.

And.

It's when a band gets a record deal
whatever offers come to the table they're

chomping at the bit to get at them.

But my co founder, Dwayne early
on, he was talking about how equity

is like a roll of toilet paper.

And that, when you have a fresh
roll, you're doling it out and

you're being real fast and loose
with how many squares you're using.

And then as you start to get towards the
end, you're like, Oh, I was not thinking

about how I'm using this resource.

It's finite.

You can raise another round, but you're
only going to be able to have a hundred

percent of your cap table on the chart
at any one time, and so needing to be

very conscious up front and feeling
knowledgeable about what that is that

you're spending and how you're using
it between hiring, finding advisors,

finding investors that can help you out.

It's an invaluable tool that The more
we can empower founders to utilize

and think about that properly,
the better the entire product

ecosystem is going to wind up being.

Edwin: Yeah.

You mentioned when it comes
to the cap table, there's a

lot of stakeholders involved.

You mentioned the lawyers, the
CFOs, some third party processors

or not processors, but platforms.

And I'm sure with that comes with
a number of different platforms.

And when it's time to leverage a platform
like Mantle, It is this historic view.

Do you find that they have to redo
anything before they move forward?

Is that what happens a lot?

Jarrette: Very often.

So usually a price round financing in
particular tends to be this point at which

there's a lot of focus on the cap table.

And so whether you are the counsel
as a lawyer representing the company

that's being invested in or investor
counsel, you're There's this process

of due diligence and looking to tie
out as it's called the cap table and

basically take a look at document
by document and justifying all

the numbers that they're seeing.

And when it's underneath that microscope,
there are very often aspects of it

that can wind up being incorrect, like
option grants that didn't necessarily

get the right board approval,
valuations on the exercise price or

exercise prices that don't align to
the latest valuation of the company.

And there's all these different aspects
that, Leak their way in over time and

then all appear at that very concentrated
point of focus when the founder is under

a lot of stress and they're being told,
Hey, there are issues with your cap table

that stem back like one or two years on.

So a big part of what we're doing
a Mantle is building out an A.

I.

Powered onboarding process in which
we are looking at the raw documents,

extracting the key information and then
presenting it in a way that not only

can they very quickly see what their cap
table is going to become, They can see

line by line in the documents where we're
extracting that information and have that

validation take place right up front.

And not only are they onboarding onto
a platform where they can continue to

manage their equity, they're getting
a health check at the same time that

can then be flagged to lawyers or to
an accountant in order to, to review

and decide what the next steps are.

Edwin: And I imagine with the
implementation or the leverage of AI,

it's an eye opening situation for the
founders, but as you said it really

helps them move faster, quicker.

when it comes to AI and aside from
the onboarding, where else are

you seeing this technology being
leveraged or being empowered or

revolutionizing this part of the process?

Jarrette: Yeah, I think in particular
for us the very generative aspects

of AI aren't as much of our focus.

Hey, make me a pitch deck.

Cause for example, fantastic use cases.

But for the area of the world where
we're nerding out right now there is much

more of a focus on how are we able to
quickly synthesize data and present it

back to someone so that they can quickly
understand it and make the most of it.

And so whether that is information
about their cap table information

about the industry in general and
saying Hey, if I'm looking to hire an

advisor, what are the general equity
percentages that I should be offering?

Or, even if it's just understanding like
the point we were discussing earlier.

What do I do with an option pool?

Or what's peripasu mean?

And things like that, like providing an
educational aspect to it as well, so that

people aren't dealing with this in the
dark, and just roaming around blindly.

They can feel acknowledged and
empowered about what decisions

they're going to make with that.

Edwin: As you were talking
Jared, it's amazing.

you could almost ask your platform,
explain it like I'm five, what I

have here, and what does this mean?

I'm actually looking to bring in
another partner and how could that

look before even engaging with
third parties and your advisors?

Jarrette: Yep, exactly.

I will stress that we're not
going to replace lawyers.

Their knowledge about, What should
be done and how things should be done

properly is absolutely invaluable.

But that first level passive conversation
that you would normally have with a mentor

or something like that is something that
if you don't have access to that resource

in the moment or you're up at night at
2 AM worrying about this sort of stuff.

There's someone, there's something
or someone that's always around

to assist you on that front.

Edwin: That's great.

Aside from AI and obviously AI is the
big thing in this last couple of years.

Are you seeing any other major disruptions
within this industry or within this space?

Jarrette: Yeah.

The, there's been interesting
market shifts at large.

There's a combination of companies
deciding to stay private for

longer, like delaying those IPOs
or just never having a plan to IPO.

And that is resulting in private
companies that have way more complexity

and history to them than there used
to be around like secondary transfers

and things like that tying into like
their series C's, D's, E's and beyond.

The other aspect is we're also starting
to see more companies that are opting to

bootstrap their own resources rather than
seeking out that seed funding early on.

And so there's a lot of kind
of democratization around how

companies are choosing to start
themselves up and continue to grow.

There's no fixed playbook anymore around
like you go, you approach investors,

get your seed funding, hit a series
A, hit a series B, and then look to

IPO sometime in like that future,
like in the coming years after that.

Edwin: And this might be a bit of a
tangent Jared, but that's amazing.

I appreciate you sharing, but I imagine
the use cases that your platform tied in

with a lot, trained of a large language
models, I imagine that you have a good

data set or you can have a good data
set of all the almost limitless types

of ways to structure a deal now too,
as well, which a lot of founders out

there may never know until the mentor
tells them or an advisor tells them,

but There could be something there.

I'm not sure if that's able to
get out there But just in terms

of having that knowledge for the
founders like oh, you know what?

These are your options and of course,
there's different ways to look at things.

Jarrette: Yeah, and there are a lot of
ways to aggregate and anonymize that

data in order to provide an Impartial
view on of the world and present it as

such we've also implemented capabilities
like term sheet Summarizers and modelers

that you know If you are in the fortunate
position of being approached to buy an

investor with a term sheet You can Drag
and drop it into your cap table and we'll

project what that's going to look like.

If you need to understand what each
of the different terms are, you can.

If you want to start playing around
with they're saying, hey, let's do a 15

percent option pool top up and you want
to see like, how can I drive that lower?

Yeah.

You can then start tying that into
forecasting models for your hiring plans

and then prove to them with visuals
and data on, here's who I'm looking

to hire in order to last me the next
five years before we do another raise.

I don't think we're going to need 15
percent and we're going to need to

dilute ourselves that far in order to
have the spending power of our equity

necessary in order to pull that off.

Edwin: Exactly.

And that's just great because like we,
we've mentioned in the past, we might've

just been pulling this out of our ass.

Out of our behinds before, right?

Like just to figure it out.

Let's do 15 points.

Let's go there.

Jarrette: Yeah, exactly.

And then there is a lot of that sense
of feeling like the person, the investor

that's coming in is putting money,
like money and resources on the table.

Knowing how or what the right way is
to approach continuing that discussion

and negotiation, which it ultimately
is at the end of the day, is something

that we want to provide founders with.

Edwin: That's great.

Something that I took note of over the
last couple of years, and I know, from

your founding story about the blockchain.

I'm curious when it comes to
the NF T's and the ownership's.

What do you see?

The future is for company ownership?

Jarrette: Yeah great question.

The fact that at the end of the day
a cap table is the summary of a whole

bunch of paper documents means that,
maybe we're not quite ready just yet for

immutable records of what the cap table
was because there's all sorts of things

that end up happening with legal docs
like revisions and things like that and

when you're looking at chains, like first
party chains like Ethereum, like Bitcoin,

The cost in order to edit or amend those
records can be pretty pretty substantial.

But I think as we start to get into a
world in which we have a tighter coupling

between those underlying documents and
how that data has been turned into,

key value pairs on a system, the more
ready we're going to be for having those

types of systems in place that are going
to allow, non objective third parties

or additional providers to be able to
tap into that information and utilize

it for facilitating secondary rounds,
facilitating payroll, things like that.

It was just like additional ways of
accessing cap table data that so many

different folks in the ecosystem utilize
in different ways in a simpler format that

they can readily run with as possible.

Edwin: That's great.

And that stuff, I remember when
I first started reading about the

NFT space and ownership and giving
ownership to your first purchases, I

thought that was just fascinating, but
it was just like, all right, that's

way beyond my my concept right now.

When it comes to this podcast, I am
always interested in terms of business

leadership, how people are growing,
what things they're working on.

I guess just personally, Jared,
what are some of the biggest

challenges that you're facing today?

Jarrette: One of them is to, to my point
just now, there are so many different

personas that end up touching a cap
table and they all have different needs

and ways that they're thinking about it.

And yeah.

Traditionally, one of the most underserved
ones are the law firms that are helping

these companies manage their equity and
just the company structure in general.

They usually wind up being the
power users of these platforms,

but have also traditionally not
been the ones paying for it.

And therefore, a lot of their
use cases and workflows don't

necessarily take priority against
what a founder is asking for as far

as how they think about cap tables.

And we're trying to keep an eye out
for where we're best suited to be able

to help out different personas and
also where there's the opportunity

for ecosystem partners to come in and
take over for other elements of it.

And so we've actually been very lucky
to join the open cap table coalition,

which is essentially a consortium of
ecosystem players, a law firms, payroll

management systems, secondary market
providers and things like that to Look

to build towards a consolidated or
unified data model that we can then

transmit cap table related information.

And so we don't necessarily need
to be everything to everyone.

We can choose what areas that we play in
and then have ties to partners that are

using the same data structure in order
to quickly facilitate transactions or

other types of items that a company is
going to be running on the day to day.

Edwin: And through that consortium it's
a good place to be and start situating

to really answer those challenges.

When you, I know you sit as head
of product and a co founder as

well with these challenges and
looking into the future, like.

how do you plan and you lead to the
future for your employees your teams,

your stakeholders, your customers?

Is there anything specific that you're
doing as you're leading them there?

Jarrette: Yeah, we pride ourselves on
being a very dog food heavy organization.

And so not only say, as we're hiring
engineers, are we having them make their

first code commits in the first week or
even the first day, we're also having

them onboard companies at the same time.

And so there's a lot of time spent in
the platform by everybody understanding

what the pains of either onboarding
or using the platform end up being,

what sort of thought process they
have or that the founders have as

they're going through it in order to
understand everything that's going on.

And just building a lot of that empathy.

And I think what that does is
help give us a pulse on where the

industry's headed, what types of ideas
or areas we're best positioned to

be able to help these founders out.

And that's just something that we're gonna
continue to do for the foreseeable future.

Edwin: No, I love that.

What was the term you
said at the beginning?

Jarrette: Dog fooding.

Edwin: Dog fooding.

Jarrette: Yeah.

I believe Paul Moritz, when he was
at Win, either at Windows, I think it

was at Windows I believe he coined it.

And the idea of if you're making dog
food, you should be eating the dog

food in order to check the quality.

Same kind of idea with products
in the tech space, right?

The more you're using your product,
the better you're understanding what

it's actually like to be a user and
empathize with where they're coming from.

Edwin: That's perfect.

Thanks for sharing that.

Jared, I'm just curious if
you could share the vision.

What is your vision of the
future you are building?

Jarrette: Yeah we want to be able
to empower founders and operators

of businesses to truly understand
and utilize that finite resource of

equity that has traditionally been
underutilized, And so by giving them

the tools to understand what the value
of it is, allow them to quickly and

efficiently plan around how to spend it.

We're envisioning a world in which
not only can companies execute on

their product and gain a lot of time
back because they don't have all this

mental baggage sitting in their head
about, Who owns what and how are they

going to keep their investors happy?

It's all parked in Mantle and
they're happy with it being there.

They can then worry less about that aspect
and just really focus on the execution.

Paul: It sounds like you've you'd turn
the whole thing of around cap tables

into a tool for telling a better story
about your company and giving them

options for stories they can tell
depending on who they're talking to.

Jarrette: Yeah, definitely.

Paul: And so what do you think becomes
possible for founders as their ability

to really back up their story with data?

Like what becomes possible?

Jarrette: Yeah, there's definitely
a lot of opportunities there.

Whether it's the forensic aspect of
understanding what changes underwent

or came through the cap table over
time or even just saying hey, look

at our retention with our employees.

Here we can see like we're able to very
clearly tell the story on how their

equity is growing as the company's
continuing to grow and aligning a lot

of those incentives between employee
and employer on building out a product

that's going to be able to deliver
value for everybody involved longterm.

Paul: Yeah.

Cause really when it comes to getting an
investment, talking to VCs and all that,

but like the story that your data tells
and how you really embrace it as the As

the person pitching or the founder, like
that has a bigger impact than just data.

Jarrette: Yeah, 100%.

I think making a good impression
with investors is so crucial.

And when there are platforms already
allowing you to tee up that data to

be as presentable as possible right
off the bat, you're not sweating

those particular slides on your pitch
deck or your talk with that investor.

You can focus specifically on the value
prop that your individual business has.

And really nailing that to in order
to get them to buy in on the vision

of what you're building as well as how
you as a company have been built out.

Paul: And so what do you what do you
think that founders need to develop

around that area in terms of how
they tell the story of their data?

Jarrette: Great question.

I think a lot of it ends up
being around having a tight

understanding of where they're
playing, where their strengths are.

And how they're essentially looking to
bring a novel position to if they're

entering an existing market where
they're going to be changing the scene,

like there's that breakdown on, where
are you disrupting versus disrupting?

I can't remember what the other one is.

My apologies.

But like the level of ingenuity
or are you changing the way that

the market thinks about this
product space that you're entering?

Are you providing a better product?

And not, and you're still operating in
the same general area just allowing them

to tell the necessary story in order
to buy in on the vision that you have.

Paul: It's cool.

Cause you're enabling them to make
bold statements and then go look I, I'm

not just pulling this out of my butt.

Sorry.

Jarrette: Yeah.

Yeah.

Or like if these are the types of
valuations that we're seeing in a general

industry, like how are we justifying
where we at or where we measure up

against the competition in those regards.

Edwin: Jared.

It's been great, but before we let
you go, I'd love to get some final

thoughts, a recommendation or any
advice for the founders, business

leaders who may be listening today.

Jarrette: Yeah.

I'll repeat because it's
a very important point.

Your equity is for founders.

Your equity is the most finite
and valuable resource that you

have at your disposal alongside.

The ideas that you have for your business.

And so when it comes to managing your cap
table or thinking about what the future

holds, the sooner you have your cap
table built out on a platform like Mantle

equity, the sooner you can start focusing
on the other elements of your business

and how you're going to impact them.

For a limited time, we have a, an
offer available of the first year free.

It's a hundred dollars a month after
that with unlimited stakeholders, because

we want to see this ecosystem grow.

And so if you're interested in
learning more, you can reach

out to us at with Mantle.

com.

We're also partnering with incubators
accelerator centers and law firms as well.

And so to anybody in those sectors
that are interested in partnering

with us, we'd love to, to see how
we could help you out as well.

You can also reach us through
the same website with Mantle.

com.

Edwin: Jarrett.

It's been an amazing time.

Thank you for joining us on the
business leadership podcast.

Jarrette: Thank you very much.

Edwin: That's bit bizleaders.

Thank you for joining me on
this special episode of the

business leadership podcast.

Part of our future narrator miniseries
recorded at the collision conference.

This was a very insightful
conversation for me.

As Jarrett Quan-Hin explored
how Mantle is transforming.

Equity management for
founders and companies.

So for links to all the resources
we discuss to connect with Jarrett

and to learn more about the future
narrative project, please do slide

into the show notes into the app
that you're listening to right now.

And if you are interested in
reading more about Jarrett.

And other business leaders that we
profiled at collision joined the

waitlist for our upcoming book.

And by the way, if you found value
in listening to this episode, please

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