The Business Leadership Podcast

You are listening to the Business
Leadership Podcast with Edwin.

Paul: Good morning.

I'm Paul Newton, creative producer
of the Future Narrator miniseries,

and I'm joined by Edwin Rozzo, host
of the Business Leadership Podcast.

We are recording live at Web Summit
Vancouver 2025, where we're exploring

how today's leaders shape the future, not
just through strategy, but through story.

We believe that a strong point of
view is what inspires communities,

builds movements and cuts through
the noise in uncertain times.

So let's dive into this conversation.

Today's guest is redefining how
businesses connect with their

customers, one transaction at a time.

Max so is a Canadian FinTech
entrepreneur and the founder and

CEO of Bravo Rewards Canada's
fastest growing scan, pay earn app.

He previously co-founded and exited IOT
pay a mobile payments company that scaled

across North America at Bravo Max is
building more than a loyalty platform.

He's creating a system that turns foot
traffic into lasting relationships,

giving local businesses the tools
to grow through smarter payments.

Real time insights and customer rewards.

With gravel, everyday spending
becomes a catalyst for long-term

connection and economic impact.

Edwin: Welcome to the Business
Leadership Podcast, max.

How are you doing

Max: today?

I'm doing fantastic today.

Edwin: Yeah.

Max: Well, I wish there's more sun
today, but um, yeah, it's raining.

I mean, it was raining.

It's Vancouver.

Edwin: It is Vancouver, but it was,
it was beautiful today, I guess,

you know, given where we are, web
Summit Vancouver, I'd love it.

Before we get into it is if you could
share what's the number one highlight?

That you've had experience over,
over day one or even before day one.

Exhausted.

Exhausted.

Wow.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Max: It's a good thing,

Edwin: yeah.

It's

Max: a good thing to be exhausted.

Yeah.

It's a good thing to meet so many people
Since, uh, Vancouver is a relatively

smallest, it's a rare chance that we
can meet people from all over the world.

Yeah.

I have met a bunch of investors,
dozen of them from the state, from

the Europe, so it's a, it's a,
it's a, it's a good experience.

I love it.

Edwin: Oh, amazing.

Yeah, it's, it's been
great for us as well.

So Max, let's just get into it.

If, can you tell us about Bravo
Rewards and the problem that

you're solving when it comes to
customer engagement and FinTech?

For retail and dining?

Max: Yes.

So before we actually dive in Yeah.

The problem I think we have to, um.

Look at the benchmark of the industry.

Perfect.

So I think everybody has
heard about the Starbucks app.

Yes.

Yes.

Love it.

But nobody really dive
into their data too much.

Yes.

So I'll give you a sense, um, last year,
34 million people used the Starbucks app.

Mm-hmm.

By saying, using it, it
means they topped it up.

They order coffee and
pay with it in store.

You know how much is left over in the app?

So much.

1.8

billion.

Jesus.

Where's my money?

Well, that means Starbucks doesn't
have to sell a cup of coffee in

North America for the next 12 months.

And they will still be fine.

That's how much money there is left over.

Well, a lot of people call,
call them like Starbucks bank.

Yeah.

Yes.

Uh, we lend them money, but
Starbucks will pay us back in latte.

So when we look at this
industrial benchmark, because

they are the best of the best.

Mm-hmm.

And when you compare it.

To independent restaurants, Canadian
mom and pop restaurants, according to

the data, 62% of them are operating at
either a loss or barely breaking even.

Mm.

That's how different it is.

And all these restaurants,
they face three issues.

One, they don't have working capital.

Second, they have no data.

Third, they have no
effective retention tools.

If you compare that to Starbucks,
McDonald's, burger King, Tim Horton.

Mm-hmm.

They are so powerful.

That they start developing their
own thing to do retentions on their

customer to get real time insight.

Not only that, they are trying
to get your purchase ahead of

time, almost like pre-purchasing.

So this give me a lot of thinking.

Can we apply that?

Right into the independent restaurants.

Wow.

Yeah.

Edwin: Yeah.

I mean it's, it's almost like in
Thank max thank you for like really

painting the picture in terms of,
um, where we are when it comes to,

you know, the Starbucks of the world.

Yeah.

It's almost like the,
that unfair advantage.

Max: It's, it's not a fair game.

Yeah.

Edwin: Yeah.

It's definitely not a fair game.

And I guess, you know, pivoting into
that in terms of, you know, who you

are when it comes to tackling this
and, and it, and it's obvious that

you're a successful entrepreneur.

You're from the payment space,
you, you understand, IOT.

So what is your unique point of view
when it comes to solving this problem?

Max: Very good questions.

So when we look at this.

Industry.

When we look at the benchmark
and compare it to the independent

restaurants, I start thinking, can we
take this Starbucks team or playbook?

Think of them as a closed loop iOS system.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Max: What Apple has developed, can
we turn that into an open loop system

where it's more like an Android?

And we will be able to allow hundreds
and thousands of restaurants to join

in and create one scan, pay, earn
ecosystem that is able, let's not

say competing with Starbucks, but at
least is able to do the same thing.

At the same ability level.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Max: Yes.

So, um, Bravo has some success over
the past 12 month, um, more than 300.

Vancouver restaurant joined our ecosystem.

Edwin: Wow.

Congrats.

Max: Yes, and um, at the same time, more
than 24,000 register user, we got over the

past 12 month, we brought more than 50,000
transactions into these restaurants.

At the same time, these
transaction worth more than $2.3

million.

So we are on track.

In the next 12 months, bring more than
10 million into our local community.

That's not the only thing.

The most important thing is the
data, the real time insight.

Starbucks can get data on coffee,
on people who like sandwiches.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Max: But we get data
that's more diversified.

Mm-hmm.

Edwin: We

Max: are able to tell
this is a family guy.

He want to have lunch or he
usually dinner with a family.

So these are the real time insight
that we will be able to collect

and help our local restaurants.

It's a totally different mine
and concept compared to before.

Yes.

Well, over the past decades, a lot of.

Companies, they are trying to
provide tools for these restaurants.

Mm-hmm.

But as you know, restaurant
owners, they are good at cooking.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Max: They're good at operations.

Mm-hmm.

Edwin: Yeah.

Max: Every day.

They need to be busy on staffing,
on the supply chain, making sure

the food quality and everything.

They don't need another
screen that could press on.

They have no time to learn.

Right.

About marketing.

Yeah.

A lot of them don't even
have a marketing manager.

They themselves is the
marketing manager, so a lot.

Over the decades, we create tools
for them that they cannot utilize.

Mm-hmm.

On my point of view, I
don't create tools for them.

Bravo put them into the same
platform and operate for them.

We always tell the restaurant owner and
everybody else, we turn this empty table.

Into revenue, into constant revenue
and traffic for the restaurants, and I

think that's the most important point.

Paul: So they just join sign
on, and it starts working for.

Max: Oh yeah.

Um, we usually go to the restaurant.

We tell the restaurant, Hey, it
seems like you have some empty table.

Um, can I buy your empty table?

How am I going to buy your empty table?

Mm-hmm.

Let's do this.

Can you sell me your store credit?

I'm gonna buy them in bulk
ahead of time so that we solve

your working capital issue.

Mm-hmm.

And that liability comes to me
because it's my responsibility.

To make sure that I have enough
customer coming into your restaurants.

Leave that part to me.

Leave the traffic, leave
the retention to Bravo.

And that's what we do.

Edwin: Yes.

That's great.

Paul: And so in exchange for selling you
the tables, they end up with that capital?

Yes.

And then how does the
data start coming to that?

Max: Well, we always collect the data, so
we provide the data for these restaurants.

We tell them rather the customer review,
are they happy with your service?

Are they not happy with your service?

Is your customer coming back
or are they not coming back?

How often are they coming back?

If there is a pattern, can
we notify them to come back?

Can we send them special
offer for them to come back?

Yes.

And these are what we can provide
for the restaurant owners.

Oh, wow.

It's, it's totally a different game.

Well, I have to say,

it's very much like what
Expedia did decades ago.

So they go into the hotels, they bought
the empty rooms, and they sell it online.

Okay.

Yes.

Paul: Yeah.

So what made you want to do this?

Max: It's a total accident, I have to say.

Yeah.

It's a good accident.

Well, it's a good accident because,
um, myself, um, ever since 12 years,

so I have been becoming a waitress.

I know how hard it is for
a restaurant to operate.

Yeah.

And about two years ago, friend
of mine, Jack, he's a restaurant

owner, he came, approached me.

He said, max, do you want to
buy a gift card from my store?

Edwin: Yeah.

Max: I'm like, why Jack?

Jack said, don't worry, $1,000.

You are going to get $1,200 in credit.

And then I think, sure, good deal.

Since I always go, right?

Yeah.

I'm like, Jack, okay.

That's a good deal.

It's fine.

But tell me why do you want this Jack?

Say Yes, I want the money upfront.

It's very hard.

Our business is hard.

Restaurant is hard.

It's working capital intensified.

Yeah.

And then I ask him what else?

He said, well, if you buy my gift card,
you are gonna come back more often and

I want you to come back more often.

And I'm, what else?

Well, I hope you give that gift card away
to other people so I get a new customer.

Edwin: Yeah.

Max: Yeah.

So I bought it unfortunately
three months after he closed down.

Oh.

And that's the point
that actually strike me.

These business are tough.

There must be a better way to do it.

Mm-hmm.

So can I go into hundreds of
restaurants and purchase their

credit, put them into one gift card?

And I'm going to get people to
start buying this gift card.

It's a very good thing because
most of the time we are buying

gift card from the US corporations.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Max: Right.

This is the first time we created
one platform, one gift card that

is completely local so that all the
company around Vancouver, we can

invest back into the local businesses.

Wow.

And I, so this is a completely accident,
and after we got that one gift card,

we didn't spend much time on it.

Instead we put it into
a app, which is Bravo.

It's a digital gift card
platform where you can spend

your money over 300 restaurants.

And I believe next year, this time we
should be around a thousand restaurants.

Mm-hmm.

Oh wow.

Yeah.

Paul: And, and you've been working
in restaurants since you were 12?

Max: Yes.

Paul: Yeah.

Yes.

And I'm sure you worked hard.

Max: Very hard.

It's a very tough business.

You work day and night.

Well, it's what it is.

It's the service sector.

Yeah.

Paul: Yeah.

And I mean like, uh, just from back
home in Ottawa, like, I mean, I see more

and more like restaurants just closing.

'cause nobody wants to do
that kind of work or it's just

Max: Yes.

Because right now if
you have a coffee shop.

One day Starbucks goes like,
it's a great location, so why

don't I open one beside you.

You are done.

Yes.

But in Bravo's vision in the future,
because of the data that we accumulate,

because of the ability that we have on
this ecosystem and platform, Starbucks

won't open one beside you because
the competition will be too hard.

We will have more traffic.

Then what?

Starbucks accumulate.

Let me give you an example.

Mm-hmm.

Starbucks and McDonald's, they
have 200 restaurants in Vancouver,

and Bravo already have 300.

Mm-hmm.

Just in 12 month.

Okay.

Imagine what is going to happen.

In the next 10 years.

Yeah.

Paul: Well, and and that's really great.

'cause I mean, like, we're seeing the
loss of these, these independents 'cause

they're just, they're, it's so unfair.

Yes.

And so what about, what about
do you, what makes you want to

help the, the underdogs here?

Max: Well, I'm not sure if you
guys can remember the ice cream

you taste or your favorite dessert.

In your childhood.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Whatever that you can
get in your neighborhood.

Yeah.

Can you still find that taste?

Can you still find that dish?

It's tough.

Paul: Yeah.

Max: Yeah.

So we need to keep this restaurant.

This is what make every
single city different.

Edwin: Yeah.

Max: Yes.

Myself, I love Montreal.

Yeah.

Because it's a unique city.

In North America.

Across North America.

Yeah.

But a lot of other city that
you go to, they're the same.

Mm-hmm.

Because they are operated by the
same companies, the same chains.

You go to Manitoba, um, I
went to school in Brandon.

It's a very small town.

Yes.

50,000 people town.

Yeah.

You go into Brandon and you go into
the next town and the next town.

It's the same.

Yeah.

Subway.

Yes.

Subway.

McDonald's.

Walmart.

Edwin: Yeah.

It's boring.

Tim Horton's.

Exactly.

It's boring.

There may be a Starbucks.

I don't know.

It depends.

Max: Well, I, I have to
be very honest with you.

Yeah.

If someday in your neighborhood,
your favorite coffee shop closed down

Edwin: Yeah.

Max: And the Starbucks open up.

Are you going to be excited?

Edwin: No way

Max: is anybody in
Vancouver excited about.

There is another chain restaurant.

Edwin: Yeah.

Max: Or cafe shop open beside
you or within your neighborhood.

Nobody's going to be really excited.

Yeah.

And we want to bring this excitement.

We love that back into our community,
supporting our whole community to grow.

That's why we call ourself Bravo.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Make it interesting.

Yeah.

Paul: Well, and that's the point of
view that we're looking for, right?

It's the uniqueness and that that taste
from your childhood or the, the things

you remember, because yeah, a Starbucks
here tastes the same as a Starbucks in

Europe tastes the same as the Starbucks
in the French, US French fries,

Edwin: McDonald's.

It's all the same.

And you don't know what it is.

Max: Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

And you don't feel anything.

You walk into the store,
there's no relationship.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When you go into your neighborhood
cafe shop, you know the owner, you know

the Raiders, even they know your name.

And then you guys can chat.

You guys can have a conversations,
ask about each other.

You go into Starbucks.

Yes.

They know your name.

Yeah.

Because it's a policy.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Edwin: Yeah.

Max: Recently I heard there's another
policy, it's called a smiling policy or

write a note policy that not only that
they need to write your name on the cup,

but they, they need to write you a note.

Edwin: Hmm.

Max: Yes.

Search about it.

Starbucks tried to push this Yeah.

Into thousands of stores.

Yes.

To pretend that it's a
community store, but it's not.

Paul: Yeah.

Well, bringing the community back is
such a, such a key thing, and especially

in this time where everything is
going the same and the, that standard.

Yeah.

Okay.

Everyone can produce an adequate
something or a, a good something, but

those little unique flares, like there's,
there's no room for that 'cause Yes.

Max: Yes.

And that's what we are bringing back
into this community so that our kids,

you know, our parents, our friends,
could have something to enjoy so

that when your friends coming over
from, I don't know, from Toronto

coming over from Manitoba, you can
invite them into something different.

Yeah.

So that it's not always.

The Cactus Club.

Yeah.

Well, it's not always the cake.

Edwin: That's right.

Max: Yes.

You want to taste something local,
something that's created by the people.

That's here, you know, create
by someone who is in Vancouver.

Yes.

Paul: Yeah.

Where they wanna keep it going.

And it's not like, oh,
eat here before it's gone.

'cause it'll never be here again.

Max: Yes.

Oh, I always tell my team, let's
create something for Canada.

In Canada.

Don't try to create something
that does not belong to us.

And that's our vision and
that's our mission as walk.

That's how we approach.

Our business.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

And I think that's how we are going
to get successful in the future.

Paul: Well, I love that story,
especially at this time where, you

know, it's so hard to stand out and Yes.

And break through the noise of these
huge shifts that are coming down

the Yes, the pipeline and the like.

The uncertainty of the future.

Yes.

That you know that you'll still be around.

Max: Yes, yes, yes.

And so far, I have to say my friends,
my families, everyone that I bring them

into this Bravo ecosystem, they love it.

They have a very positive feedback.

They are finally feeling like,
okay, there is something to explore.

There is something to look for
so that we are not always in the

same life every day, getting on
the sky train, going to the work.

Nothing really they can look forward
to after work, but now I'm bringing

these things back into their life.

It's very different.

Edwin: Uh, max, you give shivers.

Um, I'm born Canadian and it's very,
um, I'm very inspired by the mission

that you're creating and what came to
mind actually Max, near the end is, is,

and, and I think you just, um, you just
described it, but I think it's also

empowering us Canadians as consumers to
make it easier to support other Canadians.

Yes.

Right, because, you know.

As you said with the, with these
apps and these unfair advantages.

They made it so easy.

And then you, you, you get trapped.

Not, it's not trapped, but you get
into that routine of supporting the

same, you know, multinational company.

But it's, it's, you know,
I'm rooting for you.

Like I'm, I, I can't wait till I see it.

I see your sticker on
the store in Toronto.

Like there's a lot of local, I
always, I always choose local

before I, before I buy anything.

Yeah.

Um, so I'm really excited that, but
to Max, this is amazing and we're

excited, we're rooting for you.

Uh, we love your story.

We see it as a future, but before we let
you go, I'd love it if you could share

any final thoughts, recommendations, or,
or any, any, any advice for the other

founders, CEOs who are leading into the,
into the new world, into the future.

Max: Yes.

Um, I think there's a lot
of hype on AI right now.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Um, I have been to multiple
conference, multiple pitch contacts.

Yeah.

And I can see 99% of them is ai.

And I do believe the future is about ai.

Yes.

But I think the most important
thing is what kind of problem.

Are we trying to solve here?

It's only the problem that
you are trying to solve.

That's very valuable.

Then your solution mm-hmm.

Can become very valuable.

Mm-hmm.

Otherwise it will just be another tool.

Mm-hmm.

That can be replaced or
it will be A-A-A-A-A-A.

It won't be a solution.

To a real problem.

Edwin: Mm-hmm.

Max: And issue.

And for us, we have been in
FinTech for, for the past decade.

Mm-hmm.

We have create a number
of terrible product.

We have create product that we
think that's going to solve problem.

We have create product that
other people think that's silicon

solve problem, but the user.

They don't feel like it's going to solve
the problem and it's not going to work,

Edwin: or it's not even a problem at
all, or it's not even a problem at all.

Yes.

Max: So I think that that will be my
advice, is to focus on the problem and

see how you can solve that problem and
look for the most valuable problem.

Edwin: That's amazing.

Max.

We, uh.

We are very grateful for your time.

We want to present you this book,
it's called Future Narrator.

Me and Paul co-authored this.

It was inspired by the interviews
we did at Collision last year.

Oh, and we put in our concepts
and our stories of how to

really build this community.

And you're doing it right.

We think you're a future narrator.

We want to present this to you.

And also thank you for joining us
on the Business Leadership Podcast.

Thank you, Edwin.

Thank you, Paul.