The Business Leadership Podcast

You are listening to the Business
Leadership Podcast with Edwin.

Paul: I'm Paul Newton, creative producer
of the Future Narrator miniseries,

and I'm joined by Edwin Frondozo, host
of the Business Leadership Podcast.

We are recording live at Web Summit
Vancouver 2025, where we're exploring

how today's leaders shape the future, not
just through strategy, but through story.

We believe that a strong point of
view is what inspires communities.

Builds movements and cuts through
the noise in uncertain times.

Today's guest is reimagining
Business Travel at Scale.

Elia Wallen is the founder and CEO
of Engine, a hypergrowth company that

has redefined how business travel
is booked, managed, and experienced.

Under Elia's leadership engine has
tripled its revenue, helped over 900,000

travelers and empowered more than 750,000
hotels to grow their market share, all

while building one of Colorado's most
admired company's cultures named CEO

of the Year by Colorado Bus Magazine.

Elia has led the company through
a bold transformation from hotel

engine to engine, adding flights
and rental cars to its platform,

and securing a valuation of 2.1

billion.

With a focus on product
innovation, customer obsession

and culture as a competitive edge.

Elia is a, is building something
far bigger than a booking tool.

He's building the future
of business travel.

Welcome to the Business

Edwin: Leadership Podcast.

Elia How you doing today?

I'm great.

I'm great.

Thanks for having me.

can you tell us about Engine,
specifically the problem that you

are trying to solve when it comes to.

Business travel.

We're all here for business
travel and corporate bookings.

Elia: Yeah, for sure.

I didn't come from the space.

We started off in corporate housing and
we did corporate housing for traveling,

nurses and doctors outta the gate.

But our customers said, book hotels
for us and book travel for us.

And at first I was.

I didn't know what they mean meant, there
was so much available resources to go

online and book and take care of travel.

Edwin: Yeah.

Elia: But when we started to dig in a
little bit more, we realized that there's

a pretty big gap between tools that
were built for very large organizations.

I.

And then tools that were
built for consumers, right?

Platforms that were built for consumers.

And what we found was there's a
very big gap in what we call the

unmanaged business travel space.

And so you have these smaller
businesses generally speaking, that

just don't have the same resources
as those larger companies do.

And so we wanted to build a product
that could help serve that population,

that underserved population of
small and medium sized businesses.

And that's what we set out to
do and it's been great so far.

Edwin: Yeah.

No, and I was just thinking when I'm
thinking even just for my, me and my

small teams and some of the folks I
work with and just, I'm just trying

to get the clarity in terms of that
gap that you're filling in is I.

I don't wanna go to my travel agent and
I gotta figure out where a hotel to go to

and then get my cars and who's gonna is
that sort of the gap that you're filling

in for me as a small business owner?

Elia: Yeah, that's right.

It's beyond booking as you
mentioned, so we help facilitate that

transaction, that booking transaction.

But from a business perspective, there's a
lot of other things that they need, right?

Yeah.

You wanna see visibility into
what's going on with your spend.

Who's on the road,
maybe who needs support?

And so we provide a lot more
outside of what a, a traditional

kind of B2C or consumer booking
platform does for businesses.

And yeah so it's beyond booking,
it's trends, it's reporting,

it's consolidated billing.

Oh yeah.

So we do that for businesses to make
their lives easier so they can focus

on building and growing their business.

And not managing travel.

And again, it's really
curated for that more SMB

Edwin: Yeah.

Elia: That maybe doesn't need all those
heavy compliance and policy adherence

tools but still needs more than what kind
of a consumer platform would be built for.

Edwin: And I'd be curious as
you dove in and really looked

into this space, I guess the.

Addressable market sizes
is fairly big as well.

Elia: It's massive.

Yeah.

From our research and what we can find
about 50% of business travel is unmanaged.

So about 50% of business travel
is done on consumer sites.

Yeah.

And direct and travel
agencies and things like that.

And we believe that's the opportunity.

Edwin: Yeah.

That's amazing.

G, good for you.

Just to dive in, in terms of you as
the business leader, I'd be curious

just what your take would be when
it comes to who you are, what's your

unique point of view that you bring?

To solving this gap, this problem
when it comes to business travel?

Elia: Yeah.

I honestly, I think the fact that
we weren't, we didn't come from the

traditional TMC space, gave us an edge.

There's a lot of great people and
resources and companies that are,

have been doing that for a long time.

And I think we've looked at
it from a different angle.

We approached it with a tech first
mentality and how do you solve some of

these problems without these traditional
maybe approaches and solutions?

And I think that's
honestly given us an edge.

They say ignorance is bliss, and
I think there is a, there is an

opportunity there in this space to
just rethink how you can do some of

these things and rethink monetization.

And do you need contracts?

No, we don't need contracts.

And there's some other things
we've just approached this

differently and it's really worked.

Paul: And so when you started delving into
the problem, you said you were like you

were booking or people were approaching
you like, how do we book this like.

How did you look at it?

What when you started solving this,
you said looking from the outside,

what did it look like to you?

Elia: Yeah at first, and I think,
anybody listening right now is not,

we don't need another booking tool.

Exactly.

It's covered.

We're good.

Move on.

I would find another,
it's a red ocean, right?

And honestly that was probably one of
the most surprising things about this.

And I would just say there,
there's so much opportunity.

And so many spaces that maybe are
dominated by a few people, and

then you get closer to the problem,
you start to see, all these other

opportunities that are there.

And that's exactly what happened.

But our customers from another business
that I founded were pulling us this way.

There's no way, I ever wake up
and man, we need to, we just

need to build a booking tool.

Yeah.

Like that just doesn't make sense.

But those customers were
persistent and honestly, for

the first couple years I'm like.

We're not doing it.

Like we gotta stay focused on our
other core product and core offering.

And but they were persistent
and it pulled us there and then

we got closer and go, oh wow.

You've got Fortune 5,000
tools and you've got.

Consumer based products, you don't
really have anything in the middle there

as an eye-opening experience for sure.

Yeah.

Paul: And so as as I shared the
problem they're experiencing and their

dissatisfaction with the tools that
they were using, like how did you break

it down to, oh, then we can, we can
do this and then add this and make it.

Make them happy.

Elia: That's exactly what we did.

We actually started with a manual team.

It was called THH,
traveler Save in Hotels.

And we had we went to Home Depot
and got those fold out desks,

and we were running outta space.

The other company was growing fast,
and we were literally just booking

things like maybe a traditional
travel agent see would've done.

We're calling hotels and getting
pricing and booking and billing

and doing, managing all that.

In a very scrappy, very small way.

Yeah.

But I think the idea was just
like, Hey, this doesn't scale.

But there's clearly demand.

It's working on a, in
a insanely manual way.

Let's start to apply some technology
to this, and that's what we did.

Paul: Yeah.

Okay.

And then and so then how did you bring
the customers along on the journey?

Elia: Yeah.

I'll say we almost made
a massive mistake, right?

We built this tool.

We thought that we had this thing that
was gonna be great, and we built it and.

No one showed up.

Yeah.

You guys know the saying, right?

If you build it, they will come.

It's, if you build it and
market it, they will come.

And so we had we had a product
that we thought worked, our

internal team was using it.

But no one was there.

And honestly, I almost shut
down the company altogether.

It was very small, just a few people.

'Cause it wasn't really taking
off in the way that, you

know, and again, naive right?

Looking back, like of course how
would people have known about it.

But we took a couple of sellers from
the other business and said, Hey.

Try this out and we approach a
similar go to market strategy

and and it started working.

Yeah.

Paul: And how did how did people react?

'Cause people are just dissatisfied.

They know this kind of is clunky
and it sucks and then all of a

sudden problems start going away.

How did you experience that?

Elia: Yeah, it was the honestly,
the billing was the biggest hook for

us when we launched the ability for
people to have a consolidated bill.

One of the problems when you're a
business booking without a tool,

without one of those bigger tools is.

You are literally giving a
front desk a credit card number.

And on physical plastic, right?

This is years and years ago.

And if something happens with that
credit card, all your reservations

have to be called and you have to go
update everything, whether it's shut

off or stolen or fraud or whatever.

And so we were just taking
that burden off of them.

So even though the product wasn't perfect
and it was still clunky and maybe didn't

have all the features in the world.

There's a few things that we had
to do that was just eye-opening.

And so even though, again, maybe
it was clunky, it was still better

than the alternative of them
manually doing this themselves.

Paul: Okay.

And then just as you were looking
at the problem, do you see any, like

patterns in how you approach problems
or the way that you see things that

has, allowed you to build this?

Elia: Yeah, it's always
with the customer mind.

Yeah.

It's just what problem
are we trying to solve?

And we really never.

Added any friction that we didn't need to.

I think a lot of times people are
like how are we gonna monetize?

Let's do this.

Let's add this.

We're gonna charge a fee.

If we started charging a fee outta
the gate, we would never get anywhere.

And so I think we just how do
you get the customer to say yes?

How do you get 'em to say yes more often?

How do you ask the sales team?

What are they saying no to?

Go solve that, go fix that, and you
just continue to move down the line.

And all those friction points you just
literally obsess about and you remove.

And we do that with almost everything.

Honestly our board jokes around
just give it away for free again,

Elia just give it away for free.

I'm like, but yeah.

Honestly, let's create as much
value as possible and and will be

successful and the money will come.

It figures out a way.

It's funny how that happens.

You create a lot of value for people.

Yeah.

You'll figure out a way to monetize.

But when you stick those those
constraints up front, those friction

points up front, like you never
really know maybe what you fully have.

Paul: Yeah.

Like a little earlier when we
were chatting, you were saying

like, when you're in the company
and just working, you're like the

opposite of like really laid back.

You're like, focused and on.

Tell me how how you are and how that just
gets the team really behind you on this.

Yeah, man.

Elia: We're in it.

So my first company was bootstrapped
until the day I sold it.

We never raised a dollar and.

I think that scrappiness and that
just we burn the boats, right?

This is all we have.

We don't have a line
life of money coming in.

And you have to make it work.

And so we were scrappy.

We never had all the resources
and I think we, we really

tried to pull that DNA forward.

So when I talk about
the culture internally,

Edwin: yeah,

Elia: it's we grind like we're
just a hardworking group that like

holds each other accountable and.

It's not a place to rest invest.

It is just, it's something that
we we really take pride in to be

honest of how we how efficient,
how productive the talent density

inside the business is very high.

And so these are all things that
we just hold near and dear and

it's part of why we're successful.

Paul: And clearly that
culture is important to you.

Like, how do you make sure that
it stays the way that you want it?

Oh, man.

Elia: I probably do three
to five interviews a day.

We have what we do bar raiser.

So we took a page outta Amazon's
book and we applied bar raiser

concept to all of our hires.

And we ensure that kind of our
culture carriers and those folks that,

that are, that kind of DNA that we
look for are in nearly all of these

interviews and the hiring processes.

And it's, you start there right
at the front door and you make

sure the right people get in.

And then you have to live those values.

And so as new people come in
you can learn things from them.

And we're also going to maybe have to
reeducate and retrain and indoctrinate

and how we wanna operate and how we go.

And the right people say, hell yeah,
a lot of competitive people out

there and, that's who we looked for.

And that's how we do it.

Paul: Oh, clearly those things
don't happen by accident.

It speaks volumes to who
you're, and how you're leading.

And and it's inspiring
to see what you've done.

Elia: Thanks.

Thanks.

Edwin: Yeah.

You know what came to mind Elia as you,
as we were talking in conversation and

really sharing sort of your, and I'm.

I, I don't know if your previous
company that you sold as Bootstrap,

was that your first company?

No.

Yeah, a lot of little

Elia: guys before that, but yeah.

Yeah, for

Edwin: sure.

So what I was really feeling and really
inspired by is that how Bootstrap

and I understand, I started a.

Tech company, I was bootstrap and I
know just being Tena, very tenacious

and just keep going and pushing and
there's no excuse you gotta do it.

We just gotta get things done.

And I like how you mentioned
that you just moved it forward.

It's really an inspiration to keep that.

And now that you have an abundance
of recess resources, like how

do you I think it's a, it may
be a challenge, but and Paul.

Alluded to it, but it's like
sometimes now you're in abundance.

If someone needs something,
you give it to them.

And given the abundance and where we
are in ai, I am curious how how are

you changing the way you're leading
your teams with AI and both internally

and maybe forward with your clients
as well and how that's showing up now.

Elia: Yeah.

So I'll hit on the first part on, yeah.

On abundance and man, I'll
say after our series B.

We had some cash in it
is our big raise, right?

Yeah.

The, more cash at the
bank than I'd ever seen.

Yeah.

On the line.

I do.

I'm like, what's going on?

And honestly, man, you can see
how money can ruin a business.

We just said we made it, we got it.

We figured this out.

Go.

We made it.

Let's go.

Everybody do 10 x more.

And that was a real lesson.

And, luckily, the core of the business
and the core DNA was still there,

but we made a lot of mistakes.

We were not ready for scale and
money forces you almost to, to you,

you make a lot of bad decisions.

And so we pulled that back.

We learned from those mistakes.

Luckily, soon enough.

How long?

It was a solid six months of running.

That's the honeymoon of it.

Hard.

Yeah.

Like thinking like somebody wins a lotto.

Edwin: Yeah.

What

Elia: are you gonna go do?

Like you buy a plane in a boat and five
houses and all this stuff, and then you

wake up one day and you're broke and

Edwin: Yeah.

Elia: Luckily we had
enough self-control and the

Edwin: people around you too, I'm sure.

Yeah,

Elia: absolutely right.

And but that was a wake up call.

And so money does a lot of things
good and bad, and people just have

to be aware of both those things.

And so on the abundance side, like we,
we're still, we're growing very fast.

We have more money in the
bank now than we had then.

And but there's just a
lot more discipline to it.

And we know, we're not
gonna get drunk on this.

Oh my gosh, we just happened, right?

We have pulled back there.

We spend money, we spend
more than we used to.

But I used to like.

Geez.

Like guys, we like, I
wouldn't pay for a thing.

Yeah.

Like literally like Paper Ivy, you make
sure people are using both sides of the

paper because, like that type of thing.

So I love that.

Now we might just use one side of the
paper, but we're also not using paper.

That's good.

Yeah.

So we've evolved a lot there, but
we still really try to keep it

pretty humble and keep it reasonable
and rational on the AI front.

Goodness.

We could talk about this all day.

We, yeah.

We're doing a lot of it.

We're probably not the furthest
along of some of the, those early,

early, early adopters and movers.

But I think for a company, our
scale and our size, I think

that we're doing pretty well.

I do a lot of interviews and I ask,
and those Hey, what are y'all doing?

And honestly, I You'd be surprised
how many aren't doing much.

Yeah.

It's really surprising that, yeah.

Yeah.

In, in that measurement we're
way ahead and certainly in other

cases we're probably behind.

But it's here and it's not gonna,
it's only gonna get better.

And it is the worst it's
ever gonna be is today.

And it's, it just continues to evolve
and so much opportunity for the

customer, for our great suppliers
and partners that we have too.

Productivity efficiency and
just mindless things that

people don't have to do anymore.

It's, it's a revolution.

It's amazing.

Edwin: Yeah.

I'd just to say, given your ethos and the
ethos of the culture that you're bringing

up, it sounds to me that your customers
will probably tell you when they need it.

That's right.

I want That's right.

And I think, I have trust and faith
that you're probably like, Hey.

I think when we got asked this 10
times in the last month That's right.

What does this mean?

And let's dive in.

So that's really fun, I think, and
that's the opportunity because now

you're scaling with a specific and
the clients are coming now, right?

Elia: Yeah.

We have not seen, and it's early,
but we have not seen a ton on

the customer side to be honest.

Yeah.

And I think it's just that change and
just, some people are gonna stick to the

old ways of doing it and that's fine.

We're gonna support that.

And there's gonna be some that are.

A bit more ahead.

But I think when you start to sprinkle
it in and they don't realize what

we could do and what we could help
them with, I think that's where

the kind of the magic happens.

That surprise and delight
moment with AI throughout.

Yeah, exactly.

But internally, we ask every
department all the time,

what's your biggest constraint?

Yeah.

That's if 99% of things are going right,
I wanna talk about the 1% that's not Yeah.

And we go after the 1%.

You find those choke points and
those constraints and a lot of

times the answer can be or will be.

Ai, and it's either go, here's
a new tool and you don't have to

worry about that anymore, or this.

So we're still hiring humans very fast.

But there's also just getting
more productivity of everyone.

Edwin: Yeah, it's exciting.

It's exciting times.

I'm excited for you.

I'm excited for Engine.

I'd love it if you could share your
final thoughts, recommendations to the

business leaders who are listening today.

I, it I kind of wanna frame it in
context that, especially to those

who are scaling right now what
would you tell them right now?

Scaling fast.

Elia: Scaling fast.

So I just wrote a post on LinkedIn.

I think now is an incredible
time to hire talented people.

You can do more with less.

And then I also say you
could do even more with more.

And so I love that.

There's an interesting angle I
think of a dilemma of, Hey, do

you really need all those people?

But if you have the
resources and the tam, yes.

If you can get 80, 80% increase in
productivity from folks, like step

on the gas, that's what we're doing.

That's how we're thinking about it.

If you raise your first check
don't operate any different.

Like literally, there's very few
things you should do different.

Just preserve those dollars,
make sure that you're spending

things on the right things.

And yeah, obviously AI is just there
and I think earlier companies have that

natural benefit I think of being able
to just build in kind of an AI first

way with a lot of their applications.

But, yeah.

Edwin: No, that's amazing.

It s very inspiring.

Elia we we want to present you,
this is a book we just released.

It's called Future Narrator.

Oh, thanks.

Appreciate it.

It's really inspiring what you're doing.

We believe you're helping build the
right future, especially in this

customer-centric point of view.

And I love that you're focus on the human
first, especially on your team building.

thank you for being on the
Business Leadership Podcast.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

You are listening to the Business
Leadership Podcast with Edwin.