The Business Leadership Podcast

You are listening to the Business
Leadership Podcast with Edwin.

Paul Newton: Good morning.

I am Paul Newton, creative producer
of the Future Narrator miniseries,

and I'm joined by Edwin Fso, host
of the Business Leadership Podcast.

We are recording live at Web Summit
Vancouver 2025, and we're exploring how

today's lead shaped the future, not just
through strategy, but through story.

We believe that a strong point of
view is what inspires communities,

builds movements, and cuts through
the noise in uncertain times.

So let's dive into this conversation.

Today's guest is building games that
speak to the heart and championing

the people who create them.

Carina Kam is the co-founder and
chief product Officer at Simply Suite

Games where she helps scale inclusive
emotionally resident experiences designed

to inspire and connect with over 17
years of experience across indie and

AAA studios, including EA and Microsoft.

Karina brings bold vision, product
vision, joyful leadership, and a deep

commitment to equity in game development.

Her mission to help a million players
learn a hundred thousand new words

through games that reflect the diversity
and richness of the world we live in.

Originally from Johannesburg
and now based in Vancouver.

Karina is also an active community
builder, supporting underrepresented

talent, volunteering with non-profits,
and helping shape Canada's

next generation of developers.

Edwin Frondozo: Welcome to the
Business Leadership Podcast, Karina.

How you doing today?

Carina Kom: What's up, ed?

I am doing well, thanks.

It's overwhelming to be here at
Web Summit, but it's fantastic

to be here as well too.

Edwin Frondozo: Yeah.

So tell me, actually, now that you brought
that up, in terms of Web Summit, web

Summit, Vancouver, first time it's here,
what, uh, what's been your key takeaways

or the first thing that comes to mind?

Um, one

Carina Kom: amazing question.

You know, Vancouver has
such a, a rich mm-hmm.

Tapestry of talent here.

Um, but we're not branded very well.

So when with web selling coming here,
I'm hoping that we're getting more

traction, more visibility, and that
we can peek behind the scenes to see

who are the pioneers, who are the
movers and shakers that are making

our industry move forward here.

Edwin Frondozo: Yeah, it's, uh, it's,
it's amazing even for myself just

coming here and really learning with
the, with the community and, you know,

coming from Toronto, it's, it's just
so great to be, and it's a beautiful

city, so getting an opportunity
to hang out here is, is amazing.

Carina, can you tell us about
Simply Sweet Games, the problem

you're solving in inclusive and
emotionally resonant game design?

Carina Kom: Absolutely.

So.

I'm gonna do a quick plug here.

Yeah.

Simply speak is at the BC
Pavilion today, uh, and tomorrow.

So come check us out.

Okay.

Um, this is an important mission
for us, um, because the problem that

we're trying to solve is, is twofold.

Um, on the developer side, the first
problem that we're trying to solve

is we know 75% of the puzzle genre
demographic identifies women, and

yet less than 20% roughly, um, of
developers in Canada identifies women.

So who are making these products for who?

Edwin Frondozo: That's right.

Carina Kom: That's the first
problem we're trying to solve.

Yeah.

And the second problem that we're
trying to solve, um, are around premium

casual games or freemium casual games
or, you know, any kind of handheld

device game intended for women.

We see that many of these games,
these brain games, um, use exploitive

ads and they use recycled mechanics.

So we're here to change that, change
that narrative about who makes content,

what kind of content, and for who.

Edwin Frondozo: Oh, that's amazing.

You know, as you were talking
about, uh, you know, the games,

I, I think about my daughter now.

I mean, she's slowly asking for games.

She's almost nine years old.

Okay.

And, you know, and that's interesting.

I never actually thought about like,
who's making it for my daughter?

And what it's gonna do this.

And I guess one follow up question to
what you're saying is, you said, you

said is a me it is repeatable mechanics.

What, what does that mean?

Carina Kom: Uh, recycled

Edwin Frondozo: mechanics recycled me.

Yeah.

Carina Kom: Um, so.

When I look at the broad, broader
landscape of word games, I'm

seeing many games using the same
mechanic again and again and again.

Um, and it's, it, it's designed that way.

Mm-hmm.

It's short bursts.

Um, but they don't change the.

The mechanic, very much so.

Players who engage with these
kind mechanics get hooked in

and addicted very quickly.

Mm-hmm.

And without realizing it, they're
spending hundreds to thousands of

dollars in a game that exploits them
with odds and really just takes the same

formula and repeats it again and again.

Edwin Frondozo: I see.

I got it.

Thank you for clarifying that.

You know, you as a, as we were.

Researching and looking into your
background career and it, it's, it's

obvious that you have that experience
when it comes to came design.

We're curious what your po what
your, what is your unique point

of view other than that, that you
bring to solving this problem?

Carina Kom: That's a great question.

You've a daughter who's nine years old.

Um, I was a 6-year-old who played Sega.

And it never occurred to me
who made games for, for who?

I just got to enjoy my, my Lion King, my
Aladdin, and my, my Magic School bus game.

Uh, I really enjoyed that.

And then when I entered the industry,
it's, uh, it's a longer story.

We'll go for beers later.

We'll talk about it.

Yeah.

It's a longer story.

I entered the industry
at 19 years old and, um.

I've heard this from countless women,
not just myself, but for me personally.

Nine years old entered the industry
and I was one woman out of 10.

Wow.

And if you can imagine being a
19-year-old entering the entertainment

industry, for the first time ever being
surrounded in this, uh, uh, different

culture, that's not designed for me.

Mm-hmm.

It's not designed for me to be successful
because after hours, let's go to the

strip club, or let's go do something
that I, I'm not, oh, I'm not, um.

That I'm not, it's not for me.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so when you ask what gives
me the unique perspective, who

makes games for who and why?

Um, I'm a woman with my
co-founder, who's also a woman.

Um, we've experienced
adversity on multiple layers.

My partner Tina Mary, is an industry
leader with over 20 years of

experience in the gaming industry.

Um, when she entered the
industry, she was 40 years old

and immediately went through, um.

The same, I wanna call it, I don't
really wanna call it Boys Club,

but it kind of is a boys club.

Yeah.

Um, I, I hope that does
make you uncomfortable, but

that is the reality mm-hmm.

Of what we're going through.

She went through a different
story, feeling ageism.

Right.

We don't, we don't think of a 40-year-old
woman making games for, for Right.

For us, we think of a, maybe
a cool 20-year-old executive

man with a sports car.

Um, so.

Because of our unique perspective,
having faced adversity, we know

what it takes to build a resilient
team and a resilient mindset.

And that's the kind of unique proposition
that we bring to our audiences.

Paul Newton: And, and so then, you know,
you talked about the, um, the recycled

mechanics and like getting, getting
hooked in to, hooked on these games.

Like what?

Um.

What should a game do?

Carina Kom: Well, we craft joyfully,
uh, craft experiences, pre experiences

that make you think, make you fall
in love with language and vocabulary.

We want you to play this kind of
game with your son or daughter,

niece, nephew, grandkids, even.

Um, this is the kind of game where you
should feel guilt free as you play it.

Um, those are the kinda experiences that.

I am seeking myself personally.

I know that millions of other
players are looking for it as well.

Um, I'm looking for games that, um, that
really sparked joy in a, a meaningful way.

Paul Newton: And so if, if games right
now are like addicted, then what's

a, what's a joyful or better model?

Carina Kom: Great question.

I'm so glad you asked that, Paul.

Uh, so we, we can unpackage
this, but uh, in a nutshell.

How we monetize our games at Simply
Suite games is a little different.

We're taking an unconventional
approach, um, to how we monetize games.

Also, how we've designed the games
in terms of play session is a little

different from the average game.

So we design games to
fit into your schedule.

We wanna meet you where you are at.

Um, when you pick up a game, it shouldn't
feel hard for you to put the game down,

but you should feel like you want to come
in and, and, you know, have a productive.

Positive experience every single
time and maybe change or alter

your behavior in a positive way.

Right.

And,

Paul Newton: and how are you gauging
these, these positive experience?

Like what's the, what's
a measurement of that?

The experience has been positive.

Carina Kom: Also a great question.

I love these.

This is excellent.

Uh, so we're engaging it.

Currently we're still in closed.

So for context, um, how we're
gauging it now, uh, twofold.

It is qualitative.

So I'm here at Web Summit at a booth.

I'm engaging with our players and I'm
asking the questions, not not loaded

questions, but asking them questions.

How does this make you feel?

Who is this for?

How much would you possibly pay, um,
to convert into the full unlocked game?

These kinda questions help me understand
like what is really important to players.

We look for the qualitative.

Mm-hmm.

And so far I've heard, um, I've heard
statements such as I could see my

7-year-old sister playing this game.

One, my aunt and I played Wordle every
single day during the COVID and I could

see us playing this game together, or, um,
my best friend and I played Scrabble every

day until I finally won and then I quit.

But I can see myself
playing this game with her.

Yeah.

And you know, we have a long distance
friendships, so this is the kind

of experience I'm looking for.

So that's the qualitative
in the quantitative.

Behind the scenes of our game, whenever
a developer ships a game to, uh,

like a mobile device, we actually
get backend analytics that help us

to understand how much time is being
spent in the game, how often the

player picks up and enjoys the game.

And we're reviewing these analytics
daily to understand like, are we

hitting the right mark mm-hmm.

In terms of, you know, engagement.

Um, and then, you know, doing a lot
of surveys and polls to help us.

Get more quantitative feedback
around how often should we help

you to improve your vocabulary.

Mm-hmm.

How often would you pick up this game?

You know, if we had a, a daily or
weekly event, um, as an example.

Paul Newton: And, um, so I've tried to
learn words and language and things, I'm

sure, you know, through the various apps.

And, uh, I recently dropped a
streak of God knows how many

days because I was getting, uh.

Just, I mean, I, I don't think I was
advancing and I was just trying to

keep up with, I guess, the algorithm
or what have you, and I'm like,

this isn't doing anything for me.

And, uh, they got me hooked.

But, um, I mean, what would
it look like if, if I kept on

progressing and just, uh, I.

What's enjoying?

Yeah.

Um, you know, learning my, not a
hundred thousand words I guess,

'cause I'd be like a whole, I'd be
like, wow, fluent in a new language.

And I'm probably a scholar, but,

Carina Kom: well, fun fact, the
average adult knows about 50,000 words.

So by increasing it to a
hundred thousand, we're just

doubling your active vocabulary.

Um, which I think is totally
possible for you, Paul.

Edwin Frondozo: Same language.

Carina Kom: For the same.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you speak multiple languages
though, you must know tons of words.

I need, I need your app.

Edwin Frondozo: Yeah.

Yeah.

I need improve.

Very

Paul Newton: simple.

You heard it first here, podcast.

I need your app.

Yeah.

English is hard.

Carina Kom: Um, I, I'm so glad you asked.

In our game, we're using an
inclusive design principle that

allows us to adapt to the player.

Mm-hmm.

So, as I'm retrieving backend analytics
about you and I understand your needs.

And let's, let's put this on the table.

It's not the sensitive
data that I'm collecting.

I'm not trying to understand if you're
male or female and what age, right?

I'm just curious about your mind and
how you interpret language different.

So.

I'm interpreting and analyzing all the
words that you are creating with me in

our game and ecosystem, and I'm adapting
the game to meet you where you're at.

So in theory, if you were to
play this game for a thousand

days in a row, the game would
feel different every single time.

Paul Newton: And so then the repetitive,
uh, or the mechanics that you get

hooked on, what's the, what's not
the opposite of that, but like, if

you're not hooked, what are you.

Hmm.

If it's not addictive, then what's the,
I guess, you know, an addiction, like you

have a healthy habit or you have a, uh,
even you're becoming part of someone's,

you get to practice a, a practice.

Yeah.

Like you

Carina Kom: practice.

Practice Sounds like a good approach.

I'm gonna lift that from you.

I was just, you know, it
was just part of the, the.

Uh, unpackaging.

The problem is, you know,
learning doesn't have to be.

You know, boring.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Right.

Brain games can be really fun.

Yeah.

But I think about going
to school every day.

It's a practice.

Yeah.

Well, to help educate.

And it can be really fun as well.

It can be social, it can be fun.

So we're not trying to
create addictive behaviors.

We're looking for this practice of
change, behavior and a positive direction.

Paul Newton: Yeah.

I like that.

Carina Kom: Um, and in our
game, it, it really is.

Fundamental for us to tell a story.

So you're, you're not just coming here
to play a game, you're coming here to be

the hero who's using her spell casting
to help restore literacy to this world.

Paul Newton: So, I mean, I, you told,
you told us about entering the, um,

like the world of production at, uh,
19 and, and just, uh, and joining and

getting into this boys club and going,
oh, um, but what is it about you that.

Makes you get somewhere and
say, I wanna change this.

Carina Kom: Right, right.

Well, I'm not the only woman,
uh, who feels this way being, you

know, um, the underrepresented
in a room, not having our voices

heard, ageism, uh, things like that.

Um, it's really about how
we show up as leaders.

My business partner and I are very careful
about who we hire so that the games

that we make a reflection of our team.

So as leaders, um, we have this enormous
responsibility, and I think it more

a calling to change the narrative
because I've been there, I've been

the 19-year-old where the CEO comes
and puts his hand on my knee or,

you know, puts his hand on my waist.

Um, and I, I just, I, I, I
fundamentally don't agree with this.

Think about your own daughters or nieces.

Um.

We, we, no one wants to see that
happen to their Yeah, their,

their, you know, loved one.

Um, so having gone through that and
still standing, I have a lot more

confidence now to kind of pave the way
and show off a, you know, gaming in the

entertainment industry as a whole in
the creative sector can be a safe space.

And so.

By showing up as a leader in that
way, we can start to hire people who

understand this mission and align with
our vision to change the narrative of

the gaming industry, which has far been,
you know, burnout and layoffs and not a

very psychologically safe environment.

We, we can really do this.

Mm-hmm.

Paul Newton: And then the exploitive ads,
like what, what's the kind of ad that

would show up in a, in a perfect world.

Carina Kom: Oh, I haven't
really thought about that.

May we don't use ads in our games.

Okay.

I haven't really thought about that.

Um, we did, we, you know, we chose to not
include ads in our game so that you can

just focus on having fun and storytelling
and learning without the distraction.

Um, I don't know if there was a, the
perfect ad, maybe it would be an,

an ad that's catered to the player.

Um.

But I, yeah, I can really
can't comment on that.

Paul Newton: Okay.

And, and what, what's been
your inspiration to grow?

Carina Kom: Oh, um hmm.

Well, I love storytelling and I
love digital interactive media.

Um, the community has been incredible.

Um, finding the right group of people who
understand that this is not a money grab.

This is something that is
cultural, that can change lives.

It can be, um, as good as
you want it to be, right?

We don't have to exploit people
spending thousands of dollars in a game.

You could pay the price of a coffee and
enjoy this game for the rest of your

life until the next one comes out, right?

Um, so I, I.

I truly do believe that we have what
it takes to change the narrative.

Um, it might be slow work, but as long
as we keep going, then it's all good.

Paul Newton: And, and what
becomes possible for, uh, well,

for women everywhere and people
like game players everywhere.

Um, when your mission becomes
just widespread, it's everywhere.

Carina Kom: Oh, well, representation
begets representation.

Right now as women, we're in the toughest
funding climate and economic climate.

Ever.

Um, there's a study that's, uh, gone out.

It's by Wells Fargo, and you know,
JP Morgan have revealed that in

the VC climate, um, only 2.3%

of women founders are receiving funding.

And yet these female founders are
producing two times the return on

investment than their male counterparts.

And the gaming industry is about 12%.

Um.

We're receiving the funding.

So when I think about these metrics of,
you know, women receive so little that

we are able to generate almost twice the
amount of revenue, um, in the perfect

world, once we've solved this forever
problem, um, because it's not going

to go away tomorrow or even next year.

It'll be a forever problem.

Um, we will have achieved a, a, a
perfect utopia where everybody has

equal access to funding opportunities.

Um, and we're able to create
psychologically safe environments where

it's okay to talk about your kids at work.

And it's okay to even cry at work if,
if that's how you feel that day and

someone will be there to support you.

Paul Newton: Well, this is so,
so necessary now in these, uh.

These times of uncertainty and,
uh, where everybody's probably kind

of wanting to cry a little at work
and, uh, making that that okay.

And more, more open.

Sounds like just a, a
perfect future to create.

Carina Kom: Absolutely.

Which I'll lean into that.

Okay,

Edwin Frondozo: Karina.

I mean, it's, um, you know, before I
let you go, we got, we got, I, I got one

question and, and first off a comment.

I mean, it's really, I've been doing the
business leadership podcast almost eight

years and it's really refreshing in terms
of who you are and what you're bringing

to this industry and really being this,
uh, purpose driven in terms of, uh, um.

Leadership, you know, you're,
you're, you are like, one of the

purpose reasons why I do this.

I always, I always told my wife, I
always wanted to show my daughter.

There's just other things
that are out there, so I just

wanted to share that with you.

Um, I guess before that I, any final
thoughts, advice, recommendations?

This could be, you could
take this wherever you want.

Um, to either the founders, the
CEOs, or the business leaders

who might be listening today.

Carina Kom: Right.

For the founders out there
right now, we need resilience.

Mm.

This is the time to rally together and
bring each other up at the same time.

Paul Newton: Mm.

Carina Kom: We're past the stages
where we need to be competitive.

We need to be.

Shared and comradery at this
stage, any company, sorry, tangent.

Any company that is, uh, doing under
50 million in revenue, you need help

out everybody in this ecosystem.

And if you're doing more
than 50 million in revenue.

And you, you need to help out.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

In this, in this climate.

Edwin Frondozo: And so thank you
for joining us on the business.

Your podcast.

Carina Kom: Thank you so much, honor.

You are listening to the Business
Leadership Podcast with Edwin.