The Business Leadership Podcast

Salli: You're listening to the business
leadership podcast with Edwin Frondoso

Etienne: To create unique manufacturing
assets You need a system integrator

that's going to take great tech from the
components provider, Rockwells, and so on

of the world, design a system, commission
it, and eventually it's going to work.

We serve anywhere from A manufacturing
professional that has maybe grown

up on the shop floor, knows the
manufacturing process, but might not

be an engineer, up to a roboticist
that's got trained into, in P.

E.

G.

and robotics.

You want to be able to train
those robots in the virtual world.

So you can really de risk,
create scenarios, train the

robot on those scenarios in the
virtual world before you deploy.

Edwin: Good morning.

Good afternoon.

And good evening biz leader.

Welcome to another episode of
the business leadership podcast.

I'm Edwin front dozo.

And today.

We are featuring a special episode
from our future narrator mini series

recorded live at the collision
conference in Toronto, Canada.

In this mini series, we explore the
future of leadership, innovation, and

storytelling with visionary leaders
who are not just designing products.

But our creating entire
new worlds and markets.

Joining me is Dr.

Paul Newton and together we'll
be speaking with Etienne Lacroix

The founder and CEO of Vention.

A manufacturing automation
platform that democratizes

access to industrial automation.

Under his leadership venture
has grown to serve 4,000

manufacturers across 25 industries.

And 30 plus countries.

Recently Vention was named one of
Canada's top growing companies of 2023.

By the globe and mail.

Ranking them number 64
out of 425 companies.

In our conversation Etienne.

will discuss how Vention.

I was revolutionizing the field of
industrial automation by making accessible

to small and medium sized manufacturers.

We'll explore how.

Ventions platform allows users
to design program, deploy.

And operate their own manufacturing
systems without the need for

expensive system integrators.

Etienne we'll delve into the
company's focus on usability.

The impact of collaborative robots and
future innovations like digital twins

for virtualizing machine components.

So without further ado, here we go.

We're now speaking with Etienne
Lacroix, the founder and CEO of Vention.

How are you doing today?

Etienne: Very well.

Thanks for having me.

Edwin: Thanks for coming in.

Really excited to get into this.

I guess Etienne, I just
want to jump right in.

Can you share what problem is
Vention solving in the field

of industrial automation?

Etienne: Yeah, we're making
industrial automation

accessible to all manufacturers.

If you go on a manufacturing floor
today, you'll realize that most

manufacturing assets are unique because
the finished good manufacturer is unique.

So unique finished good,
unique manufacturing assets.

To create those unique manufacturing
assets today, You need a system integrator

that's going to take great tech from the
components provider, Rockwells, and so on

of the world, design a system, commission
it, and eventually it's going to work.

That had a lot of costs that expertise
needs to be paid for, and that makes

the price of industrial automation
robotic as such that small and medium

manufacturers just can't pay for it.

So what we're doing is we're making it
self serve so users can go online, design

those systems by themselves, program them
by themselves, deploy them by themselves,

and operate them by themselves.

So we're mostly focusing on small
medium businesses, helping them

adopt industrial automation at scale.

Edwin: And I guess thinking outside
and not being within the industry.

And I understand like the big upfront
costs of these customized machinery,

getting the programming in it.

What does it look like for those smaller
businesses that it is a self serve?

Like how much do they need to know?

Do they just need to know what the output
is and what the input is and then your

platform will figure the middle part out?

Etienne: So that's a good question.

We serve anywhere from A manufacturing
professional that has maybe grown

up on the shop floor, knows the
manufacturing process, but might not

be an engineer, up to a roboticist
that's got trained into, in P.

E.

G.

and robotics.

So we serve that spectrum.

But the denominator here is that the
user experience from the ideation

of a machine to its deployment and
operation needs to be a zero learning

experience for somebody who already
has manufacturing process knowledge.

So that's what we're trying to serve.

Can I serve everybody that
does not have the knowledge?

Perhaps not, but most manufacturing
professional know their process.

They know what's worked well and with
that intelligence, they can come in the

platform and get to a functional system.

Edwin: Amazing.

So definitely it's someone who understands
the process, the manufacturing flow.

Otherwise they're probably
not your customer.

Correct.

Etienne, I'm wondering if you could
address, or maybe not address, but

how are the robotics revolutionizing
the manufacturing world now?

Etienne: think the trend of faster
robotics adoption started around 2012

when Cobot, Collateral Robot, got
introduced with the rethink robotics

of the world and more recently
universal robots of the world.

That really set the journey.

If you look at the trend of
robotics adoption, the number of

units shipped in the United States
has doubled since that time.

Wow.

Interesting, the last two years are
down, quite for interest rate reason, but

overall we're on a very upward trajectory.

The concept of thinking about your
robot cells and doing it by yourself

was inexistent until roughly 2016.

Today, I think in that space,
Vention is the fastest growing

channel to deploy robotics.

We market share that we have
in that industry has more than

tripled since the beginning.

It shows, and most of our clients, 60
percent are small museum businesses,

again, that most of them did not
have a first robot on their floor

and just got started with this.

There's something there that is changing.

Industrial automation is getting
more productized, getting more

platformed, and as a result, it's
easier to make non experts adopt.

Edwin: And this is me thinking about
the cloud world, the SaaS world

from 20 years ago where a lot of
the business operations went in.

It seems like the adoption within your
industry is finally coming through now and

it's it's really getting more accessible
and this is where the opportunity and

maybe in the small, maybe you could talk
about the small medium business owners

or industries where they're finally like
super excited that this enables them.

Etienne: Yeah, there's the main
tailwind in the industry right

now is simply labor shortage.

There's a chronic labor shortage
that is structural in North

America until 2030, right?

So that's the kind of phenomenal
tailwind in the industry.

But there's an unlock that
has not yet unlock itself.

And I'm going to bring us to the future.

That's your thing.

Today, the only way to know if a robot
sells or a machine is going to work

is to design it, to buy the component,
to assemble it, and to test it.

Sometime it doesn't.

I would say 30 percent
of the time it doesn't.

You need a bit more time, you need a
bit more investment, and eventually

it's going to work, but maybe not
at the intended performance level.

CapEx is in the way, right?

How do we get CapEx out of the way?

And that's the unlock.

And that's unlock is not far away.

I would say a two to
three years in my opinion.

Okay.

If you're able to virtualize.

The act of troubleshooting those
machine on the actual physical twin

and you bring that to a digital twin.

Yeah, then you can basically
test before you invest.

We're missing just a couple of building
block in the industry to get there.

That means that the digital twin
that you create online in those

virtual environment, you need to
be able to simulate varying inputs.

Box are not arriving
always at the same time.

So the machine needs to adapt
to all those varying condition.

That's usually what the process that
needs to be debugged on the real machine.

You want to be able to debug
that in the virtual world.

So you need physics based
simulation that is reliable enough.

That's number one.

The number two is right now when
you're training robot with AI,

most of the training is taking
place on the physical world.

After CAPEX.

You want to be able to train
those robots in the virtual world.

So you can really de risk,
create scenarios, train the

robot on those scenarios in the
virtual world before you deploy.

It tests before you invest,
get CapEx out of the way.

And to go back to your analogy of
cloud, go back in 2006, anybody that

wanted to start a software business
had to shell 20 grand worths of server.

Yeah.

Nobody's doing that today.

In fact, you get a hundred thousand
dollars worth of credit from AWS.

If you're funded by a real VC, right?

Yeah.

CapEx is out of the way.

How do we get CapEx out of the
way for industrial automation?

And to me, that's, we need to finalize
the step to virtualize machine

design and we're not far away, but
it's not going to happen in 2024.

We're probably three.

Three years away.

And that's the unlock, get CapEx out.

Edwin: From what I'm hearing to get
the CapEx out of the way, is really

leveraging these virtual worlds,
these 3D goggles, Programming, the

real world in this virtual world.

Etienne: Twin needs to be a near or
almost accurate version of the physical

twin and the tech is not there yet?

Where everybody's, working on it,
trying to improve little pieces,

but that's the unlock, right?

Edwin: Have you seen it working though?

Have you seen like parts of it already?

Etienne: it's a journey.

In industrial automation, there's
two risks that you're solving when

you assemble the machine today.

Technology risk is all the components
that I bought today work with one another.

The one from Siemens, Universal,
they all need to work.

And they all need to work as a system.

And that's the tricky part.

This is pretty much resolved.

When you platform, like Vention,
you work with LEGO parts, right?

You're in an industrial LEGO environment.

All the parts available are compatible.

So that risk is gone.

What's remaining is the process risk.

That intricate process knowledge, that
varying input that you need to deal around

for the machine to work all the time.

And this is where Near Accurate
Digital Twin will help.

And that's where you need
physics based simulation.

That's where you need to be able to train
robots in those virtual environments.

So you can accommodate
all those variation.

And when you deploy, it's
going to work, right?

CapEx is out of the way.

Edwin: That's wild.

That's amazing.

I'm excited for that.

So I would

Etienne: say three years, three years.

Okay.

Edwin: Aside from, these digital
twins, this automation, are you seeing

any other disruptions in the horizon
that is within the industry, that's

really going to change it as well?

Etienne: Everybody's trying to move.

I'll say everybody, but I think people
pushing the frontiers are trying to

get to a state where we have autonomous
machine or autonomous robotic.

Yes.

Nobody's there yet.

That's going to be a progression.

So I think step one is going to happen
is we're going to see machine that have

some sub function that are autonomous.

A little piece is autonomous, but
the whole world machines still

need to be supervised by a human.

Edwin: And programmed.

Etienne: And initially
programmed, I'll give an example.

Today if I want to assemble, let's
say a pin in a hole, it's going

to be completely prescriptive.

Take the pin from a tray where it's
properly positioned, close the two

finger gripper, move it by eight
centimeters, drop it in that hole,

and that's very A to B to C, step
by step prescriptive programming.

We're all working towards
creating function that have a

higher level of abstraction.

Here is a bin full of those
pins, and they're unstructured,

they're like all over one another.

Look, if there's been in the bin, perhaps
with a camera, if there's one pin, figure

out how you're going to go grab it.

Cause I only have two little fingers here.

I cannot grab it like a human hands.

I need to position
myself in a various ways.

And moving robot is an
unconstrained system.

There's so many ways a robot can
go grab that thing, but one is a

bit faster than all the others.

So compute the right way to go
grab that pin and then try to

enter it in a hole until it fits.

You can now start to program those
higher level abstraction function that

are we call mission based programming.

It's no longer prescriptive.

Have a camera, find a pin, compute all
the various paths to go get that thing,

and then move it in that little hole.

That's the first step we're going to see.

Nobody has cracked this beyond the
university lab or the R& D lab.

There's not a lot of

real world example yet.

I think within 6 to 18 months,
we'll start to have little

sample of autonomous function.

But then you need to get
to the whole machine.

If the bin of part did not arrive
in time the machine is stuck, right?

You still need a human to supervise.

So that's what I think people pushing
the frontiers are trying to solve

is increasing the level of autonomy.

Edwin: Oh, that's great.

And I really appreciate the
examples that you're giving.

The visual is nice.

And for those who are listening, it
could really, grasp what's happening.

And even this higher level of
programming, that's what we're doing.

What's coming to mind when it comes to
leaders and business leaders that are

navigating through this change, through
this revolution of AI, I'm curious,

how do you lead, your organizations,
stakeholders, customers through

these changes and keep them inspired?

Etienne: Maybe my answer
is going to be completely

disarming, but AI is a tech tool.

Yes.

Just like the gazillion amount of
technology we have in the toolbox.

Bringing AI is no different than when
we brought IoT, than when we brought

big data, than when we brought, right?

It's just organization that have a good
system to bring new products to market

are good at bringing AI to market.

Good product management structure, Good
technologist team that have the skill and

discipline of bringing products to market.

So those things don't turn into R and
D land and more into commercialized

products that brings value to the end
user, into the business that provide

them to me is key, but it's no different
than all the way we've been designing

products since the, the last 20 years.

Edwin: Yeah.

So for, from what you're saying is
when you bring in these new tool sets

throughout your organization it's just all
looked as just a new tool, and how do we

integrate it, and how do we lead to that?

And

Etienne: I would say our client
would think the same thing.

Clients in the world of industrial
automation robotics don't ask for AI.

They ask for solution.

If the solution used AI or
not, they couldn't care less.

It doesn't matter, yeah.

They want the outcome.

They want the payback.

They want the ROI.

AI is a tool to get there
for us as platform providers

to, get to those solutions.

Edwin: Etienne, I'm curious as a
business leader CEO what are the

biggest challenges you're facing today?

Etienne: Talent has been
consistently a challenge, right?

Finding right talent.

And we're here in Canada.

The talent pool is small, right?

Have you ever read the Netflix book
radical candor or the, it's a book

about culture or something like that.

And the main thesis is that
there's an infinite talent.

supply of a players.

So if you're not happy with,
give them a lot of autonomy.

If you're not happy with
them, just let them go.

Yes.

Don't micromanage, give
them just big mission.

And if they're not happy, let them go.

But that imply infinite pool of talent.

We don't have that in Montreal
or in Canada or in right.

The pool of talent is much smaller.

And if you're dealing with hardware
tech, like the concept of hiring remote.

Is significantly diminished
because I cannot send robot to

every house of my developers.

They need to test it.

Edwin: Didn't it be there?

Etienne: So I think that's, that
makes the challenge more difficult.

There's a great university.

We're just not producing enough
of that talent, I would say.

So I think that's probably the toughest
thing is to find great technologists,

great roboticists at scale.

We were very lucky to have, we
have a lot of them at Vention

but we would like to have more.

So we often get those
talent and we need to.

And that's true not only for
technologists, but that will

true for product marketers.

There's barely no depth in
the talent pool in Canada.

That's also true for product managers.

There's very little depth in Canada.

Especially if you're trying to
navigate hardware, software, firmware.

The whole, there's very little
depth in Canada versus what

you'll find in the United States.

Edwin: Etienne, what is your vision
of the future you are building?

Etienne: So we're Vention
today is a two sided platform.

By the time we are IPO ready, it
will be a three sided platform.

Vention is a platform in a very purist
sense, and those business models, because

they're not point solution, have the
ability to go IPO because we have infinite

ways that we can grow the business.

You can add a site to the platform,
you can add a revenue stream, right?

There's a lot of possibilities, versus
You're a computer vision company.

You have this very narrow point solution.

It's hard to get to an IPO
state with those businesses.

So we have a business model
that can get us there.

I think what's interesting is
there's a lot of fun that I've raised

money to invest in publicly traded
company in robotics and industrial

automation, but there's no supply
you can buy Siemens, but Siemens is

mixed with Elkair and gas turbine.

You can buy ABB, but it's mixed with
electrical breakers and battery.

And so you're, there's
not a lot of pure play.

I think we have a fantastic story to build
the next industrial giant that is cloud

and digital end to end that can appeal
to a much broader audiences and be ready

to time the market before labor shortage
become less of an issue post 2030.

So I think that's the journey we're in.

Edwin: That's great.

When it happens Etienne, your IPO
already, everything is growing,

you're able to plug it in.

What does the world look like?

What is happening within the
industry or within the world and

the people that are affected by it?

Etienne: We like to say that you're
going to walk on a manufacturing

floor and you're going to
see a beautiful blue machine.

And those are, Vention is a very
peculiar brand and everything is blue.

Yeah.

And I think we're at a point where
we can believe that industrial

tech, again, a lot of tech deep
problems that are very narrow.

Vention is one of the few solutions that
is very broad appeal because I'm serving

today 25 manufacturing industries.

It's a tool that everybody can use.

You have the advantage and
the inconvenience of platform.

Platform can do everything
and anything, right?

But we have a very wide problems
that we can solve market wise.

What you're going to see in future years,
you're going to walk on manufacturing

floors and you'll recognize the blue
machine and the blue machine, and they're

all different, but they all share the
same core, the same, family history, the

old invention machine that runs on the
invention stack, and they all do a little

bit different thing, but it's the same
tech that has been developed since 2016.

Paul: So then when that moment happens
what would they be saying about the big

change that happened in manufacturing

because

Paul: vention did that?

Etienne: One of our clients say it best.

They say, let's vention this.

And you've achieved something when
you're using as a verb, right?

Let's Google this or let's vention this.

And let's vention this for
them is their way to quickly

solve a manufacturing problems.

They go online, they design
the solution in days.

They get it shipped the following day
and then the deploy and it's solved.

It used to take months to do that.

But when you start to bring all
those design automation stage

and programming in the same
environment, You can do that in days.

So let's vention this is the
success mark to achieve perhaps.

Paul: So now that I just Google
whatever I need to know in an instant.

So if I'm like on the manufacturing
floor and it's my facility and I'm

like, okay I'm going to vention
this because I don't need to know

everything in the world anymore.

I don't need to wait anymore.

Etienne: And to some extent you can
do that today because if you go on

the Vention website and you search
for something, you'll find thousands

and thousands of templates of
machines that are already there and

programmed to do various missions.

Paul: And so what do you think the mindset
of these these manufacturers will be?

Coz it's going to be very different
because we don't have to wait,

Etienne: it's very empowering for an
engineers to be able to solve problems.

Have you ever heard the line,
people don't wanna buy drill bit?

They wanna buy the quarter hinge hole?

If you're dealing with engineers,
they actually wanna buy the drill bit.

Because their self-confidence is rooted
in their ability to solve problems.

And if you give a tool to an engineers
where they can solve complex problem

faster, and they still get the buzz
of solving their problems, you have

a product that engineers have a
deep emotional bond with, right?

So we're, we can provide
that bond and that emotion.

Edwin: Now that's amazing.

We're super excited.

We're rooting for you.

We want to see that word vention in
our worlds all the time, but we do

appreciate your time before we let
you go, I'd love it if you could share

any final thoughts, recommendations,
advice to the CEOs, business leaders

founders who may be listening today.

And it could be anything
that comes to mind.

It could be leadership.

It could be.

Entrepreneurship, whatever comes to mind.

Etienne: I think for anybody who's
starting a business, a lot of people

tend to underestimate the amount
of resilience and grit needed.

It's definitely not for everybody.

And the more complex is the
business model, the more of

that you're going to need.

So just, I would say, think about it.

It's not every brain.

Some people train their whole
life to be Olympic athlete.

It's not everybody can be a founder.

And you need to question
yourself deeply around.

How many slap in the face can I take
over how many years to give birth to

something that is not meant to exist?

Business are not meant to exist.

You're fighting against
gravity way too much.

The only thing is your own energy.

Grit and resilience.

Edwin: Etienne, I love that.

That hits home for me as well.

So I appreciate that.

But thank you for joining us on
the Business Leadership Podcast.

Etienne: Thank you so much.

Edwin: That sit biz leaders.

Thank you for joining me on
another special episode of the

business leadership podcast.

Part of the future narrator mini series
recorded live at the collision conference.

It was such an amazing
conversation with Etienne.

And exploring how Vention is making
industrial automation accessible and.

The broader trends, shaping the industry

for links to the resources we discuss
to connect with Etienne and to learn

more about the future narrative project.

Please do.

Go ahead and check the show notes in the
app that you're listening to right now.

And if you are interested in reading
more about our Tiana and other business

leaders will be profiled, please do
join the waitlist for our upcoming book.

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